Ep 252: What schools need to do now to benefit from an AI future

The Future of AI in Education: Strategies, Challenges, and Opportunities

Artificial Intelligence is significantly transforming industries across the globe, and education can greatly benefit from its innovative capacities. The role of AI in education does not aim to replace human teachers but to support and enhance the learning experience. It creates an engaging environment for learners, sparking intellectual conversations and encouraging further exploration.

However, for the true potential of AI in education to be realized, the focus must shift from individual teachers deploying localized applications to a more comprehensive and ubiquitous usage within educational institutions.

Addressing Concerns and Mapping out AI Strategy in Schools

As AI makes steady in-roads into classrooms, it's important for educational institutions to construct solid policies addressing critical issues such as plagiarism, safeguarding, and cyberbullying. Instead of treating AI as an add-on, schools must tightly knit it into their digital strategizing sphere, urging more profound impacts on pedagogy, infrastructure, curriculum design, and evaluation methods.

Harnessing Human-Intelligence Over AI

One crucial aspect that needs due emphasis is not to decelerate teaching to the level of AI capabilities. Instead, the focus must be on fostering “human” skills, such as creative thinking, strategic debate, and innovation, that AI cannot supersede. This can result in a more holistic learning approach encouraging students to go beyond what AI can accomplish.

Keeping Pace with AI Revolution in Education

The evolutionary pace of AI doesn’t match the slow pace of change in the education systems worldwide. This lag can leave students at a disadvantage, with a risk of them seeking alternative ways to advance their learning. If not addressed strategically, students might "vote with their feet," seeking more personalized and AI-enriched learning experiences outside of the traditional institution boundaries.

Hyper-personalized Learning Environments

AI offers limitless possibilities in providing hyper-personalized learning experiences. Capitalizing on these possibilities, in conjunction with traditional learning methods, can lead to the perfect blend of digital learning. By using AI in non-invasive ways, a healthy balance can be achieved in the educational ecosystem, where technology and human interaction complement each other to bring out the optimal learning outcome.

Future of AI in Education

The dialogue surrounding AI integration in schools needs to continue, embracing the prospects of technology in reshaping our educational landscape. These developments are not only set to transform the future of education, but also have widespread impacts on society and global economies. Therefore, it becomes essential for decision-makers, businesses, and other stakeholders to come in unison to navigate this transformative journey.

And in doing so, we must keep in mind that fear often follows misunderstanding. A comprehensive understanding of AI's potential is the first step to dispel such fears and open doors for a revolutionized educational system, infused with the power of AI.

Topics Covered in This Episode

1. AI as a Support Tool, Not a Replacement
2. Schools and Their Relation to AI
3. Integration of AI Into Curriculum and Teaching Approaches
4. Slow Pace of Change in Education Systems
5. Adopting AI in Low-Stakes Educational Situations


Podcast Transcript

Jordan Wilson [00:00:17]:
What should schools be doing now to benefit from AI in the future? It's something that we talk about a little bit here on the everyday AI show, but I think what schools are doing now when it comes to AI, are they using it? Are they banning it? Do they have a policy? Do they have a plan? I think so much of what schools are doing today is going to greatly impact our collective tomorrow, not just for the students in school, but for our economy, for our society. I think this is a very important conversation to have. So we're gonna be talking about that today and more on everyday AI. What's going on y'all? My name is Jordan Wilson. I'm the host of everyday AI everyday AI, and this show is for you. It is your daily livestream, podcast, and free daily newsletter helping everyday people like you and me not just learn generative AI, but how we can all actually leverage it. In today's conversation about what schools should be doing now for an AI future is no exception. I think this is an extremely important conversation and have a great guest for today.

Jordan Wilson [00:01:20]:
But before we dive into that, let's do as we do every single day and dive into the AI news. Alright. So Microsoft is making a $1,500,000,000 investment in UAE company g42. So according to reports, Microsoft will invest $1,500,000,000 in the AI firm g42 after the company agreed to end cooperation with China and pivot to American technology. Microsoft's investment in g 42 is a significant move in field of AI and shows the increasing importance of the UAE in this industry. So this partnership will focus on AI end cooperation with China, which was part of this agreement and focus on American technology, is likely due to increasing pressure from the US government and concerns over potential partnerships with blacklisted Chinese companies. Also, this deal reflects the ongoing tensions and power struggle between the US and China in the global AI market. Some, however, may argue that g 40 two's decision to sever ties with China and pivot to American technology is not a sincere move, but rather just a strategic business decision.

Jordan Wilson [00:02:39]:
Alright. Our next piece of AI news, we actually have a double dose here. Chips, chips, and more chips. We always talk about chips here on the Everyday AI Show, but, AMD and NVIDIA have both released new AI focused GPU chips. So, AMD has unveiled new processors targeting AI enabled p c c AI enabled PCs aiming to compete with NVIDIA and Intel. Although, it's really just NVIDIA in a category of their own by the right now. So and these new processors utilize advanced 4 nanometer technology and are set to be released in the Q2 of 2024. Gartner is predicting that AI PCs, kind of a new terminology, will make up 22% of all PCs by 2024.

Jordan Wilson [00:03:22]:
So what that means is essentially, PCs or computers that have the ability to run generative AI locally, such as large language model, edge devices, etcetera. Not to be undone, NVIDIA silently released updates to its GeForce RTX lines of GPUs, which are aimed at consumer computing and not, you know, cloud computing. So NVIDIA released the RTX a 1000 and the a 400 entry level GPUs. Alright. We're gonna have more on those stories and more on today's, in today's newsletter. So if you haven't already, make sure to go to your everydayai.com and sign up for that free daily newsletter. A lot more on the news, what else is happening in the world of AI, and a lot more from, today's, interview as well. So speaking of that, we have to be talking about how AI is being used in the educational system.

Jordan Wilson [00:04:13]:
So don't worry. You're not just gonna hear me go on a rant because I've done that probably once before. So let's go ahead and bring on our guest for today. So please help me welcome, Darren Coxon, the founder of Coxon AI. Darren, thank you so much for joining the show.

Darren Coxon [00:04:29]:
It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Jordan.

Jordan Wilson [00:04:32]:
Oh, absolutely. Darren, can you just help, explain to our audience a little bit of what you do at Coxon AI?

Darren Coxon [00:04:37]:
Yeah. So, look, I mean, I I'm an ex teacher, ex head teacher, run run schools, groups of schools all over the world. And kinda year, year and a half ago, I realized that we we had something big on our hands here. You know, AI wasn't going anywhere. It was only going to become significantly more disruptive across our whole education system. And so I decided to really go right down the rabbit hole, went right in there, and as a result, have got into a position where I'm now supporting schools all over the world with their AI implementation, delivering lectures, delivering keynotes, workshops, lot wholesale strategic development work as well. So all all over the place, really.

Jordan Wilson [00:05:15]:
And and just, you know, Darren, you know, we were talking a little bit before the show, and, you know, obviously, this this conversation varies. Right? Like, we were even talking a little bit about, you know, the UAE and and some of today's news and, you know, you're in the UK. I'm here in the US, and our listeners are from all over the globe. Can you give everyone just a little bit of background? You know, where do you see things right now in terms of, you know, schools? How are they using it? Does it vary in different parts of the world? Where are you seeing kind of, you know, the, the thumbprint, so to speak, of how schools are using AI right now?

Darren Coxon [00:05:48]:
Yeah. I mean, I think what we're seeing is very small pockets of of innovation across the world. And by small pockets, I would literally might mean 1 or 1 teacher in a school. There's very little whole school ad adoption of AI at the moment. There's still quite a lot of fear. There's still quite a lot of, ignorance just in the way that people don't know what they don't know. I think we're not at the moment seeing that wholesale adoption of AI. We're just sort of seeing 1 or 2 people who are kind of playing around the edges and and find and finding their way and feeling their way through.

Darren Coxon [00:06:20]:
So I think we've got quite a long way to go yet.

Jordan Wilson [00:06:22]:
And and, Darren, you know what? Like, if I would have hit the rewind button to maybe a year ago or 2 years ago, I think that what you just said would make a lot of sense. Why do you think we are this far in to kind of, the generative AI world, yet there are so few schools, or, you know, so few educators that are actually taking advantage of this technology. Why do you think that is?

Darren Coxon [00:06:48]:
I think, well, number 1, schools move very slowly. Okay? And they always have. I mean, we've had our education system for around about 250 years in one shape or another. It hasn't changed much in that time. There's a reason for that. Things move very slowly. There are so many vested interests in our education system remaining as it is. As much as the university system, they need a certain product to to to leave, you know, to leave the school and to move into university.

Darren Coxon [00:07:14]:
So I think we we've got ourselves into a situation where we've got so many interconnecting parts. It's actually very, very hard to change that narrative, and I think it will have to happen slowly, but it is it's going to take time. Another reason is a lot of teachers simply don't have the time. Yeah. And I work with teachers all over the world, and they're all telling me the same thing that when am I going to have the time to learn this? You know, it's so much to take in. It's so complicated, and they're hearing the fear. They're hearing about bias. They're hearing about, you know, deep fakes and voice cloning.

Darren Coxon [00:07:44]:
And I think there's just an awful lot of fear wrapped around AI. And as a result, most teachers are like, well, a, I don't have the time and b, do you know what? It it just terrifies me, and I I just rather not even think about it.

Jordan Wilson [00:07:57]:
You know what, Darren? That's you bring up a a a good point there. Right? Because those concerns are valid. But at the same time, you you know, something that I've, you know, been talking about here on the show and something, you know, maybe when we're consulting, with with businesses, I I tell people swap out the word generative AI or large language models for Internet for the word Internet, and then see if that comment still makes sense. Mhmm. Do you think that maybe it is, it is more of a fear piece that is keeping this from the schools, or do you think that it is more of just a a misunderstanding? Because I think those are 2 of the the biggest, you know, issues. Which one, if you had to pick 1, is it maybe fear or misunderstanding that is maybe keeping AI from making its way into the educational system?

Darren Coxon [00:08:39]:
I I think they're both, and I think one follows the other. And we see this across history that fear follows misunderstanding. Be because if you don't understand something, then you you become scared of it. The reason I the reason I'm doing what I'm doing is I I'm my I'm naturally I'm sort of personality. When something concerns me and makes me nervous, I need to learn as much as I can about it. I've always been the same, And this is why I'm doing what I'm doing because I can see that there's a tremendous amount of concern around things like chat gbt writing your essays for you. Things like we're no longer gonna think for ourselves because AI is just going to do the thinking. We can kind of co opt our thinking to AI.

Darren Coxon [00:09:15]:
This this sort of fear, this fear narrative, essentially, it it's bread of ignorance. And as soon as you start to unlock AI, which we can talk a few give a few examples in a moment, some some of the potential unlocks, People are just gonna stay in fear. So I think we we have to change that narrative. Stop talking about AI and fear all the time and start talking about AI and creativity and AI and innovation and AI as an unlock, that's when we can start maybe to change the narrative.

Jordan Wilson [00:09:42]:
You know, Darren, one of our, someone tuning in live here on YouTube had had a great point talking about said, I would argue that children and young people will use AI faster than

Darren Coxon [00:09:52]:
the student can keep up. There we go.

Jordan Wilson [00:09:55]:
Are are are I mean, teachers have to be aware. Correct? That that just about every student is is using, you know, whether it's chat g p t or Claude or or Gemini, but teachers have to be aware that students are are using large language models to to write their papers or to help in in some way, shape, or form. Yet schools still haven't, you you know, for the most part, you know, really embrace this. So maybe what are the steps? You know, does it start with with leadership? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, where does this actually start?

Darren Coxon [00:10:23]:
I think, yeah, you've just actually, you've just hit on that the exact the exact place to start. Just back to my first point. The challenge we have with pockets small pockets is that there's no sort of strategic direction with AI in in most schools. They're kind of playing around the edges rather than actually getting getting stuck straight in. So one of the first things that has to happen is that we need some alignment with the leadership team level. We need basically the head teacher, the governors of the school need to be working. This is why most of my work is at the leadership level. Most of my work is at the strategic level.

Darren Coxon [00:10:52]:
I don't do a great deal of working with individual teachers. I work with the heads. I work with groups, the heads of CEOs of big groups of schools because actually you need that alignment first. And it's it's bizarre because often we talk about top down being bad, but actually because of the level because of the amount of fear we have, you have to have your head teacher feeling comfortable personally with he or she needs to be feeling comfortable using it for themselves personally in their own job in their own personal life or what have you and once you do that actually that that's when the unlock it's like dominoes. You've got to start with the first domino because if you don't and and all of those dominoes further down the track are going the fur the ones at beginning are still standing, and and they've they've not caught they've not got the the energy of the rest of the the the school. So always start at the top, and then if you can get that alignment, then I think the rest the rest should follow.

Jordan Wilson [00:11:45]:
Yeah, Darren. So I'm I'm interested as someone that's talked to probably way more educators than than any of us, you know, listening or or tuning in. What is maybe, a thing or 2 that that you've maybe been taken aback by by by talking to these people in leaderships, people who are running school districts, CEOs of systems, however it's set up? Maybe what's some of the, you know, feedback that you've heard or questions that that that you've heard over and over that you were just like, wow. There is really a deep misunderstanding of this technology.

Darren Coxon [00:12:15]:
Yeah. I think the the the idea that AI will just do our thinking for us. I mean, that for me is the biggest one. You know? That that suddenly if we if we start using ChatGPT or Claude or or Gemini or whatever, that suddenly we no longer have to start thinking, actually, it's not the case because basically, it's like what they call key, garbage in garbage out that you need to and you you talked about this when I looked I I watched your show last week. The importance of pro you you call it prompt engineering prompt. I actually like the term prompt psychology because I almost feel like I I work with AI in a more kind of psychological way, you know, working with the behavior side of AI. What whatever you call it doesn't matter. You you need to understand that if you put crap in, you'll get crap out.

Darren Coxon [00:12:59]:
And so, actually, you've got to be a critical thinker. You've got to be a really good writer to be able to get, you know, decent stuff out out of out of AI. So, actually, it's not about making you dumb. It's actually just using your brain and your intelligence and what have you in different ways. So definitely think that that's the one one of the first things I talk about is actually, it's it won't if you use it properly, it's not going to make you stupid at all.

Jordan Wilson [00:13:25]:
Yeah. And, hey, as a reminder to our livestream audience, if you have any questions, now is a great time to get them in, with Darren Coxon who's joining us. So, Darren, like, another question that I even have is is AI maybe being viewed in a in a way that's too serious, and and and is that something that is keeping it from being integrated into the school systems? Maybe it's just this, you know, mysterious unknown black box, and you hear about all these bad things. Is that a problem as well? Yeah.

Darren Coxon [00:13:53]:
I think so. Now I'm I'm I'm taking nothing away from these, issues. The issue of, you know, algorithmic bias. We it's there. We know it's there. You know? The fact that it can hallucinate, that AI can sometimes get things wrong. It's actually becoming increasingly less so. You know? I think anyone who keeps up with it, a lot of people talk about the narrative around when gbt 3.5 came out, and it was hallucinating quite a lot.

Darren Coxon [00:14:15]:
Or the first iteration of Google Bug, which was just the worst just the worst. I mean, it was a dreadful AI, quite frankly. Gemini is actually quite good. I mean, like, what did you do in the background? It's actually quite good. But if you those those are important. Don't get me wrong. But if you focus on that first, if the first thing when you're talking to a leadership team or a bunch a bunch of school teachers is, oh, you know, you need to watch for this, this, this, and this. You're just breeding fear.

Darren Coxon [00:14:39]:
I actually think the first thing I say is just have some fun with it. Okay? Play with AI. Just personally take go home, open up ChatGPT. Just have some fun prompts. I give lots I give all of my prompts away. Anyone who follows me on LinkedIn will know. I just give masses of stuff away. All my crazy ideas, you'll see a bunch of carousels on LinkedIn.

Darren Coxon [00:14:58]:
You'll think, what? They're all just fun. It's just ways that we can start to enjoy using AI because if you can get that hook, then you can start thinking, okay. This is great, but let's think about the other side. So I'm always a bit I I kind of go fun before fear, I suppose.

Jordan Wilson [00:15:16]:
Do you have do you have maybe an example of that? Because I think that there's probably a lot of educators out there listening and and tuning in maybe on the podcast, who are saying, okay. That's that's a great idea, Darren. How do I do that?

Darren Coxon [00:15:26]:
Yeah. So look. I had a really good one. Just just the other day, I was sitting with my my daughter, 17 years old. She's learning, she's reading, a level literature at the moment. And I set up a prompt which had her speaking having a conversation three way conversation with Clarissa Dalloway, the missus Dalloway from the novel by Virginia Woolf and Virginia Woolf. So the 3 of them were in conversation with each other, and my daughter who's super bright and actually very, very cynical about AI, she's like, what are you doing? She's like, this this is amazing. I'm unlocking so much here.

Darren Coxon [00:15:59]:
I've had, you know, enter a scene in a in a in a novel at the moment just before something happens and have a walking tour of that scene. So I did one where just before the animals evict, mister Jones from animal farm, and the the the the the student can go into the scene and walk around and meet characters and and interview the characters before farmer Jones is kicked out of of of Manor Farm that then becomes Animal Farm. So it's these sorts of ways that Gemini works brilliantly for this and so does Claude by the way. I tend not to use chat gbt very much at all actually. I'm I'm a big power user of Claude and and Google Gemini. Just fine. A simple prompt, you know, maybe a half to one page prompt. It's simple.

Darren Coxon [00:16:41]:
Actually, it's fairly complicated, but it's quite a long prompt. Can unlock so much. And then the insights that come from that conversation are are remarkable. Absolutely remarkable.

Jordan Wilson [00:16:52]:
Yeah. And maybe what's, that's that's a great example, I think. Right? Like, that that your daughter could go in there and and learn in a new way. I'm also curious. Do you think that that maybe not just teachers, but but, educational systems, are they maybe afraid? Do they maybe look at large language models as a competitor and say, okay. Well, hey. We don't want this this tool out there that's free or low cost to do a better job or

Darren Coxon [00:17:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. As good of

Jordan Wilson [00:17:19]:
a job as us. Is is that an issue?

Darren Coxon [00:17:21]:
It is. And I think that's one of the, you know, the the points I made before about the one of the biggest kind of misnomers. That's the other one. It's like, oh, AI will take our job. It won't. It just won't. So you need to understand that AI it's like it's the garbage in garbage out. AI just sits there waiting to be used.

Darren Coxon [00:17:37]:
AI doesn't make the first move at the moment. I mean, it will in future, but right now, it doesn't. People need people. Children need adults. They need role models. They need people to inspire them. They need people to encourage them. AI is not going to do that.

Darren Coxon [00:17:51]:
AI is great as a support tool. It's like a really good learning support. I would say it's like a really great learning support assistant, but it's not going to be the person that drives that learning forward. So but having said that, if a student interacts with an AI that's friendly and chatty and personable, and then they go to their teacher who's tired and stressed and irritable and just talks at them like the guy from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, that kind of teacher, you know, the the one from that scene at the beginning Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Got that sort of teacher, then do you know what? They are probably going to prefer the AI. So it's up to teachers to up their game because if they don't, lots of them are gonna find that actually kids prefer the AI to you. So I think this is a big debate that we have to have. But broadly speaking, no.

Darren Coxon [00:18:36]:
I don't see AI suddenly replacing teachers overnight. It's just not going to happen.

Jordan Wilson [00:18:41]:
Yeah. You you know, on the opposite side, Darren, so, you know, we've talked and I've asked questions about, hey. What are some of the common, you you know, feedback that you hear from educators saying, hey. We don't want it because of this. Do you have any instances or any examples of schools that have used this in the right way? Right? Like, you you know, whether it's, you know, statistics or just, you know, something anecdotal that you've seen, hey. You know, this school district, you know, they banned this generative AI. Now this is how they're they're using it. I mean, are we too early to, you you know, be able to see things like like test scores, you you know, shift and things like that? But I'm hoping you can just tell us of of maybe an example or 2 where schools or school districts have embraced generative AI and and what it means when you do that.

Darren Coxon [00:19:23]:
Yeah. I mean, I would say not at the district level yet. I think it will happen. I mean, it will happen. It has to, but I think we're we're seeing again, just back to an earlier point, we're seeing individual teachers across the world doing some quite interesting things with chatbots where they are creating, you know, a chatbot with a particular persona that might support a group of students with, a particular topic. I mean, I myself am producing a bunch of revision guides. They're They're available actually, this week, they're free on Amazon. You can just go and download them for free.

Darren Coxon [00:19:52]:
I've just sort of released them just to kind of help people with revision. You know, just things like one subject like the the the play Macbeth or, English language subject where where you can just have a chatbot trained on the syllabus. So I think I actually think we're gonna see that more and more. Individual teachers who take a chatbot, who train that chatbot on the syllabus or the exam papers, and then have that chatbot sitting alongside the the the students when they're studying. But I think in terms of the the broad, like, I'm seeing a whole school go all in on AI, I'm just not really seeing that yet. It's it's I think it's too it's too early. Bizarrely, after a year and a half, it's still too early.

Jordan Wilson [00:20:30]:
Are schools doing a disservice to students by not fully embracing artificial intelligence?

Darren Coxon [00:20:38]:
I mean, I I would say possibly, but that would be it would be unfair of me to say, you know, what what what the hell are you doing? You know, kind of wake up and smell the coffee type thing because the schools are under huge pressure, just enormous pressure. So I think it's unfair to kind of beat them with a stick and say you've got to, you know, you've got to wake up. But I do think that head teachers across the world need to start to understand that it won't be long before their governing body will turn to them and say, where's your AI strategy? Where and if they say, oh, it's just, you know, it's just a flash in the pan. Don't worry about it. It's just the wrong thing to say because it's really not you know, Jordan, that we we I I call this the zedX spectrum. ZedX spectrum is a really super old computer. Apple released about the same time as the Apple Lisa in the early eighties. We're at the Apple Lisa slash zedxspectrumstageofaiat the moment.

Darren Coxon [00:21:28]:
Yeah. We're not at the Apple m 3 chip stage, and we're certainly nowhere near the quantum computing stage. When we reach these stages, then we will not recognize where we are now. So if you don't if you don't grasp it now, forget it because it's gonna run away from you, and you're gonna be left behind. So head teachers across the world, if you're listening to this, please please listen. You need an AI strategy. You really do. You need to start speaking to the right people to get that strategy in place.

Darren Coxon [00:21:57]:
Because if you don't, the whole world's just gonna leave you behind.

Jordan Wilson [00:22:00]:
And I know, Darren, this this varies obviously greatly depending on, you know, the country, the state, the the the city, the district. Right? But what are some basic first steps for getting that AI strategy regardless of of of location, laws, etcetera? What are some of those first steps that school districts or or leaders, need to take?

Darren Coxon [00:22:22]:
Yeah. I think, you know, basic steps are you need a policy in place. Okay? You need a policy which will make it very clearly articulate what you will do when a student hands in a work which is being written by chat GBT because it's happening all over. So you need that you need that, like, plagiarism. You need a policy in place for safeguarding. You know? What if students are doing deep fakes of their peers? You know? The cyberbullying thing becomes so much more problematic when you can voice clone. You need these things in place. You need the basic the building blocks in place.

Darren Coxon [00:22:57]:
You need then to think about, well, okay. Let's look let's take a step back and look at our whole digital strategy. Let's look at how we use mobile devices. Let's look at our networking. Let's look at everything in one one and don't see AI as a bolt on. It's not. Actually, what AI should do is it should either sit at the center or kind of wrap around your broader digital and and teaching and learning strategy. I think if you do that, then actually you're in a good place.

Darren Coxon [00:23:22]:
If you just see it as being like a Band Aid, then for kids are bored. Oh, let's bring chat g p t into the lesson. It's just a huge mistake because they'll just be bored with chat g p t. It's a this is a really good opportune. Probably the first time in any of our general any of our lifetimes opportunity to take a proper step back and say, okay. This thing is not going anywhere. How is this gonna impact pedagogy, space, curriculum, examinations, and then take it from there?

Jordan Wilson [00:23:50]:
What you know, because when we talk about the future, Darren, like like, my my head always goes to a certain space. Are students prepared? And not just students, but I think society. Right? Because it it at least my take, and maybe that's because I'm I'm in this every single day

Darren Coxon [00:24:08]:
Yeah.

Jordan Wilson [00:24:08]:
Is I see that, you you know, maybe a year, a year and a half ago, there was this emphasis on AI jobs. Right? But now I think just every single job is going to, in theory or in some way, required of them, you know, in the first leg of their career.

Darren Coxon [00:24:29]:
You it feels like we're in this bit of this grand experiment, doesn't it? Do you not feel like it's like we're we're all in the middle of this kind of grand, like Truman show style experiment that keep expecting kind of the wizard of Oz to appear. Look none of us know for sure do we? None of us actually know. What all we know is this okay we've kind of got like if you imagine an x y axis, we've kind of got bot level at the moment. We kind of got this kind of level where this is everything below that level chat gbt can do better than us or or or DALL E or Midjourney. They can just do better than us. We have to teach above that level. So all of our efforts and energies and our attention curriculum need to be teaching above that level because if we teach down below here, what are we teaching? We're teaching kids to compete with charity, forget it. It's already better than they are.

Darren Coxon [00:25:14]:
Midjourney is already a better artist than 99 point 9% of the world. So don't bother. Teach above that line. So I think in terms of the jobs and careers in the future, all of those jobs and careers are gonna be sitting above that line. The problem we have, of course, that line's rising all the time. It's getting higher and higher. So but we need to be sitting at the top of human skills, debate what we're doing, the the the persuasion, presentation skills, debating skills, critical thinking skills, you know, that kind of thinking outside the box, all of that kind of very personal stuff, that's where we need to be sitting. Because if all we're doing is teaching stuff child gbt can do, then why why we're not we're not we're no we're redundant in that area now.

Jordan Wilson [00:25:58]:
You know, one thing that I I've heard a lot from, you know, not just educators, but parents as well, is that it takes so long, you know, especially here in the US that that, we won't even say innovation, that that any change moves at snail's pace. Right? Like, to get something approved, you have to go before, you know, 6 6 committees, and you have to wait months years, and sometimes it's just too slow. Is that a problem? Are are are students of today going to maybe some of them get left behind

Darren Coxon [00:26:28]:
Yeah.

Jordan Wilson [00:26:29]:
Because of just sometimes this this archaic snail paced nature of school systems.

Darren Coxon [00:26:34]:
So I think, look, the the the the the sort of the pessimist in me. I mean, I'm a fairly optimistic person, Jeremy, but the pessimist in me is going to get worse before it gets better. What's going to happen is essentially you've got like the world moving at a 1000 miles an hour and like the the the school system moving at 5, 10 miles an hour. It's like a piece of elastic. Is it it's gonna get to the point where it just breaks and just snaps. And I think that the default line sits with the students. So I what I can see happening is a lot of students just floating with their feet, just saying in this this school system that you're what you're offering me is completely worthless. And and I've now I can now educate myself.

Darren Coxon [00:27:08]:
My son, my 8 year old son is learning about DNA through pi. I mean, he's 8 years old and he's having he's having in-depth conversations with Pi about DNA. And he and he he was this morning at breakfast telling me, teaching me 8 years 8 years old about DNA. And and I'm just thinking that's only gonna get more so you know kids are gonna be able to just have a conversation with an AI who's really friendly and personable and breaks stuff down as an encouraging and and is always on when they want to learn to 8 o'clock in the evening not 8 o'clock in the morning. So I think that's the problem that we're gonna find in the next 2 to 3 years. We're going to get it to an inflection point. We're not there yet but I think we will get there and at that point then we really need to be listening to to our kids because they they I think they're just gonna vote with their feet.

Jordan Wilson [00:27:56]:
I love that saying vote with their feet. And I think that we're gonna start. I've said that before, I think we're gonna start to see that that, you know, especially here in the US, you know, universities that are still in the in the year 2024 banning generative AI. I I I I said be prepared for your enrollment to go down whether it's not this semester but next, but I think it'll Yep. It'll come. Also, you you know, Darren's son is not talking to to cake, you you know, pie if if if you haven't heard. Yeah. Right.

Jordan Wilson [00:28:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Not from inflection AI. But but, Darren, you know, I'd like that you've also brought in, you know, your family and and how your family is even using, AI and and how they're even getting somewhat of a of a different or unique education. What do you see the future of education for those institutions that do implement generative AI in the right way? Because, you know, you kinda said, hey. We we don't wanna teach what ChatGPT already knows, but what happens as these models get smarter and smarter, you know, how does that change, you know, what the future of of education might look like? Yeah.

Darren Coxon [00:28:57]:
I think look. The the stuff that we need to learn, I think we're just committed to learn it faster because cause it's gonna be able to hit the sweet spot. You know, we talk about hyper personalized learning. There's a danger to that. It could atomize us and we're on our little learning bubble. So we need to make sure we're not just, you know, we're not just kind of locked into this very personalized world. But I think if we can accelerate some aspects of learning through using artificial intelligence and I as I said, I'm seeing it myself personally, so I know it's happening because it's happening with my own family, my own children. It's they're benefiting from from it.

Darren Coxon [00:29:25]:
I think we're gonna have more time to do things to add value to ourselves as human beings. So, you know, music, I wanna see everyone learning a musical instrument. I wanna see everyone doing mindfulness and, you know, meditation. I wanna see I'd love to see every student doing some martial arts. So those sorts of spending time in nature. I love seeing the idea. I love it when my kids climb trees. So that I I I want us to focus on the human skills.

Darren Coxon [00:29:49]:
And I think if we can do that, I think we can we we could actually end enter a very, very a a really, very beautiful period in human history if we get this right. And now is when we have to get it right. This is our opportunity. This is why I do what I do.

Jordan Wilson [00:30:04]:
So, Darren, we've we've we've talked a lot, in today's conversation. But to to to summarize our our talk here as we wrap up, because we've talked about, you know, the importance of getting your leadership aligned, you know, the importance of making AI a little little more fun and not as serious. And we we've talked about some of the ethical issues. Right? Deep fakes and and what that means when you combine that with with cyberbullying. But maybe what is your one, importance or or maybe most important takeaway, which I know is hard, but in terms of what schools need to do now to prepare for the future?

Darren Coxon [00:30:38]:
Just start to use it. Really low stakes. Okay? Start to use it. You know? Take it into a a a a lesson with maybe some younger students, the non exam students, you know, maybe of 13, 14 year olds, maybe before they start their main exams in a very low stakes way and just start to have collective fun with it and teachers enter the room as students with your students. Yeah. You'll learn about it together. See it as a way in which you could connect with your students to learn about something new. Don't think you've got to be the one with all of the answers because quite frankly, none of us do.

Jordan Wilson [00:31:15]:
That's that's a great, parting piece of advice that no one has the answers, so we should be finding it out together and at least using, the technology that we all have available that can really change and and reshape the future of education. Darren, thank you so much for joining the Everyday AI Show.

Darren Coxon [00:31:33]:
Thank you.

Jordan Wilson [00:31:33]:
We really appreciate your insights. Thank you. And, hey, as a reminder, everyone, Darren mentioned a lot of different things. You know, he said just release some some free resources. We'll probably be putting those in the newsletter. But if you miss something or if if if you were busy maybe walking your dog or something else and there's something you missed, we're gonna recap it all in the in the newsletter. So make sure to go to your everyday ai.com. Sign up for that free daily newsletter.

Jordan Wilson [00:31:56]:
Thank you for joining us today. We hope to see you back tomorrow and every day for more everyday AI. Thanks, y'all. And

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