Ep 34: How To Still Use AI When It’s Taboo


Episode Categories:


Jordan [00:00:18]:

Is AI taboo. Should we be using it at all? That's just one of the things that we're going to talk about today on everyday AI. This is your Daily Livestream podcast and newsletter, where we help you keep up with everything that's going on in the AI world and we tackle some tough subjects. So we have a guest today helping us do that. Eman Fatma Sayetta is a student at the University of Karachi in Pakistan. Eman, thank you for joining us.

Eman Fatima [00:00:50]:

Yeah, thank you for letting me have guests here. And thank you very much, Jordan.

Palantir CEO Alex Karp doesn't want AI to "pause"

Jordan [00:00:55]:

All right. I'm excited. Eman has been every single time on the show. So if you are listening to this on the podcast later, make sure to join us. We go live on social media at 07:30, a.m. Central Standard Time. But Eman always brings up great questions, so I'm excited to be on the other side to ask her some questions.

So before we get into that subject of is AI taboo, let's actually talk about what's going on in the world of AI. Just because it's Friday doesn't mean that the AI news takes a pause. So let's talk about it. So kind of the first big story of the day. The Palantir CEO Alex Karp. So they're a big AI, I believe military selling AI equipment, software to the military. But tech leaders have been calling for an AI pause for a long time. And essentially Alex Karp said, hey, the only reason that everyone's calling for an AI pause is because they're slow and they don't have a product or they don't have software yet. So what's your take on this, Eman?

Eman Fatima [00:01:59]:

I think that's really a good thing because with rapidly innovations in the AI, I think people are really slow with keeping up with it. And it's something that we should accept because everything gets updated real quickly and there are certain things that we can't keep updated with it. So, yeah, it's something that he said. It's a correct thing that we are too slow to keep up with the AI.

Meta's new AI breakthrough

Jordan [00:02:23]:

Yeah, that's a good point because things are developing. I always say tech used to develop on a monthly or a weekly basis, but with AI it's hourly, right? You can read about a new technology in the morning, and by the time it's night, 810 hours later, so many people have taken it and just expanded its capabilities. It's wild.

So speaking of capabilities, so Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg or Meta, whichever one you want to call it, kind of hyping up some incredible breakthroughs that the company has seen in AI recently. I don't know if this is supposed to be to detract people from Apple's News with their new headset and Mark Zuckerberg saying, hey, look, at us. We have a headset too. But what's your take on this, Eman? Do you think Facebook is up to anything? Great.

Eman Fatima [00:03:17]:

Facebook has been very secretive regarding their updates. It's always like, whoever is interested in us will get to know first. And it can also be one of their marketing strategies where they want to grab their audience attention with introducing something new so that many people who are interested in Apple AI will move forward to them instead of looking at the news Apple AI is giving.

Jordan [00:03:38]:

Yeah, that's a good point. And if you're watching live, I just threw up one of Facebook's models. Yeah, I think Eman was kind of talking about this before the show. They are kind of secretive, Facebook is with their AI and what they're working on, but they even have a model called the Segment Anything model.

So if you're watching this on the screen, you can kind of see the power of it. But if you're listening on the podcast, it's essentially the ability to recognize in real time any object, any shape, and track it without having to train the model. That's the crazy thing. Normally if there's a dog running, you have to train the model. They'll say, that's a dog. And this is running the Segment Anything model apparently does it all for you. So, yeah, Facebook, they're actually doing a lot behind the scenes. So if Mark Zuckerberg is coming out and saying big things are coming, then who knows? Maybe big things are coming.

Eman Fatima [00:04:32]:

Yeah, maybe they are revolutionizing in their own way.

Eating disorder chatbot gone rogue

Jordan [00:04:36]:

Yeah, that's a good point. Here's an interesting story. So we've talked about this actually in our newsletter that goes out every day. So make sure go subscribe your everydayai.com. So there's a bot that went bad. This isn't the first time that a chatbot like ChatGPT or Bard, you can kind of make your own version. It's not terribly hard, but sometimes they go bad. So that's recently what happened with a bot called Tessa.

So Tessa was a Bot trained by the National Eating Disorder Foundation? I believe it's the National Eating Disorders Association. So they created their own kind of chatbot that they could use with their clients called Tessa. So it was supposed to help people struggling with eating disorders overcome those, have someone to talk to. It went off the rails. The bot went bad. This happened a couple of weeks ago, but a new story kind of came out and said, hey, essentially there are some unapproved updates to the bot that turned it rogue and ended up giving people looking for help with eating disorders bad advice. So this is not good. Eman, what's your take on this? And is this going to be a problem in the future as people start to develop their own chatbots?

Eman Fatima [00:05:57]:

I think it can be a problem, especially with ethical consideration of the AI that unauthorized updates and unauthorized things to give AI is something that we should be considered of also, people creating their own chatbots without having good knowledge can be a bad thing. And it can also linger with the ethical as well as the geometrical considerations of the AI.

Jordan [00:06:24]:

Yeah, no, that's a great point. As a reminder, if you are joining us live, feel free to drop a comment. Matthew. Greetings from Ireland. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. IMA, that's great. So it's great. We just had a comment from Ireland. I'm from the US. You're from Pakistan and we talked recently, at least here in the US, if you're using AI, a lot of times it's perceived as you're a smart person. They look at someone using AI as, okay, this is a leader, this is someone pushing innovation.

So it generally has very positive connotations if you're using AI in your company or as an individual. Not the case in Pakistan, right? Tell our listeners, who may not be familiar, what is it like for not just you as a student, but for any professionals to use generative AI, even ChatGPT or any other AI? What's that like in Pakistan?

What happens when AI is taboo

Eman Fatima [00:07:27]:

It's quite the opposite. In Pakistan, it's like there is a taboo, as the subject says, they considered it as you are lacking of the intelligence or lacking of the creativity. That's why you are using technology or AI as a shadow for yourself. In US, you consider it as a smart or innovating person, but here it's like you are lacking in your own intelligence or you are not learning. That good. So that's why you are using AI to help you or to bring your creativity out of your shadow.

So it's something very negative take here, not as well as in the business, because in many businesses, there is always a headline that you are not allowed to take any help from AI or any generative content, or else it will not be published or it will not be like we will not hire you or something. So it's not only a problem at the student level, but it's also a problem at the professional or business level too.

Jordan [00:08:23]:

Yeah, I think that this is such an important perspective because on the everyday AI show, we're literally talking to people every single day about AI. Most of our guests are from the US. So this is a perspective that I really enjoyed talking to Imon about. But where is this, I guess this narrative coming from of, hey, if you're using this, that just means that you maybe don't personally have the intelligence or you're supplementing your own intelligence. Is this something I mean, is it government, is it businesses, is it social media? If you had to say where this narrative is coming from, that's making AI a taboo subject, can you place a finger on it?

Old generations resist innovation, AI usage feared

Eman Fatima [00:09:11]:

I think that's taboo coming from a generational perspective. Especially the people who are in 90s or early 2000s think that innovations, especially with the technology, should not be considered with a business if there are old ways of doing work and that's something especially in East Asia, they dump on the new generation to bring out their old ways.

Do not bring innovations you are not allowed to change because it might go away or they like suppose you to make decisions for yourself like they have to make the decisions for our life. So that's something you can say generation too as well as the aspect of the government because whenever we think that government has taking a part in technology or innovation it always go wrong. It's something regarding ethical considerations, it's something regarding technological innovation so it's like what you can say is sort of nightmare for them to use the AI in their daily life or technology in their daily life because think that things might go away or things might go bad if they use a technology which everyone is using nowadays.

Jordan [00:10:20]:

Sure. So I do think that even here in the US there is a healthy fear of AI and what AI is capable of. However, I think that fear really, truly exists. If you start to separate AI, if you start to say, hey, generative AI. I think what most people are using on a day to day basis so text to something, so ChatGPT, text to text or mid journey text to image.

So I don't think there's a really large fear in the US around generative AI. I mean there is when it comes to job loss but when you talk about other AI, I think people can get a little scared. What is it like in Pakistan? Are people kind of just the whole usage of it being taboo? But you're saying even for things like using ChatGPT or if you're using any generative AI so you're saying generative AI in general is considered taboo, right?

Eman Fatima [00:11:27]:

Yeah. First of all, people don't like they have such awareness regarding generative AI or technology itself but once they do, they started implicating that it's not allowed to use especially for content creators or content writers who are working to make content daily. They are not allowed specifically to use AI even to outline their work. So it's something like they considered it bad or they consider it that you are not creative enough or you are not capable enough to be a content writer or content creator if you're using AI, especially generative AI to help your work. So it's something bad here.

Jordan [00:12:04]:

Yeah. So a great question here from PJ saying is this taboo concept unique to Pakistan or are there other countries that share this mindset? I'll leave that one to you Eman, because you actually talked about this a little bit.

Eman Fatima [00:12:20]:

I am from Pakistan so it more seems like it is only Pakistan but it's also especially in the Asia, especially in the Southeast Asia of the area, in Philippines, in Pakistan, in India, in China, too, that they are especially for their students. It's not allowed to use AI at all for their work. So in Asia, it's commonly known as the taboo for the AI, especially for the students itself. But in Pakistan, India and Philippine, in East Asia, it's also up to the professional life.

Another perspective on using AI in research

Jordan [00:12:52]:

Okay, all right, so we have someone on the other side here. So we have someone kind of maybe not disagreeing, but offering another perspective. So another common commenter on the show. And I've actually talked to Professor Mohammed before, so he's saying he's originally from Pakistan. He doesn't feel that it's taboo in Pakistan, saying over a period of a week he tried a few students to write scientific publications. I'm guessing he's saying that they use generative AI and pushed it forward.

So I'll get your response, but I'll also offer kind of my take. I know that Professor Mohammed is really an advocate for ChatGPT and he's used it to research papers. So my thought is, even talking with what Eman said, kind of it maybe being a generational divide, she's a student, right? Like you said, you're technically a teenager still, so maybe that's where the generational divide comes in. But do you see that maybe amongst your peers, maybe it's taboo, Eman, but you're saying at least with those, maybe older generations are viewing it as such or could it maybe be a taboo in some places and not as taboo in others?

Eman Fatima [00:14:04]:

Yeah, I think it can be taboo for some people. For some it's not because people grow themselves, update themselves, but as he said, as Dr. Esteka said, that he recently let students public publish their publications with AI. I recently had a case in my university where they listigated a student because he used AI, generative AI, to outline its publication and they caught him with it. So it's up to the people itself, it's up to their perspective and it's up to the locations of where you are at right now.

It depends upon the people itself, too, on how they update themselves, and it's also upon the location or the environment you're in. So if you're as a teacher or as an advisor, letting your students use AI for their publication as well as there are many others who don't let them use it at all for even their homework, so it's upon the people to upon the generations too, and it's upon the point of perspective that everyone is having.

Jordan [00:15:02]:

Yeah. So I do want to talk a little bit because I know that you're using AI in some fun and innovative ways. So let's talk a little bit about the startup that you and some of your fellow students have started. So it's called the Integrated Smart Mobility Network. So talk a little bit about that and how you're using AI to get your startup kind of going.

Eman's startup enhances transport with AI & e-vehicles

Eman Fatima [00:15:29]:

Okay, so our startup basically started as a project for international competition, and we are going to soon change into a startup. We have already started few things, few baby steps to start it. And in integrated smart mobility network, we use AI to enhance the transportation system. We already have, you know how road accident we have, especially in Pakistan, in Asia, even in US, the road accidents.

So we use AI integrated into the already built transportation system to make it more enhanced. We have three microtech models in it. We have mobility app where we use user experience of their traveling and make it more easy, make it more advanced. Then we have e vehicles where vehicles are more affordable to everyone, especially electric vehicles.

And third, we have a smart transportation system where we integrated artificial intelligence into the already built transport system to make it more enhanced, like introducing sensors to sense the things that are going upward, like portholes or humans. And especially integrating the crossbows and crossovers to make it more easy and user enhancing and user friendly.

Jordan [00:16:45]:

So, Eman, you are our first student on the show, so I'm excited about that. I think we have one, our second student coming on on Monday. But I'd love to get your thoughts on especially, I think here in the US. There's a gray area, right? Like in universities, in academia in general, should we be allowing technology? You brought up the case of someone at your school being investigated for using ChatGPT. What's your thought on just kind of the state of using generative AI in education? Should it be allowed, should it be encouraged? What's your thought and what do you think that means for the younger generation?

AI use should align with ethics

Eman Fatima [00:17:32]:

I think the use of AI should be encouraged and allowed in this academia system as long as it is under the ethical considerations, as long as under the ethical rules, like you are not using it for cheating, you are not pleasurizing your work. So as long as the student is doing it good, is using it under ethical values, I think it should be encouraged. I think it should be used. I think teachers should use it too to outline their profile, to outline more of their work, to outline their teaching too. So I think AI should be encouraged in a way it aligns in the ethical values, whether it's in academia, whether it's in professional or business life.

Jordan [00:18:10]:

Yeah, I love that I've said it on the show before. If I was a professor, there would be a long paper due every single day. I know that sounds terrible, but I think it's a skill to be able to learn and properly use generative AI. My last question for you, unless we have any others that come in here in the Chat, where do you see this specifically with students, right? Because you still have a couple more years of school, do you see this changing, at least for students in Pakistan? Just like not just accessibility or the taboo changing, but also encouraged use to use this more in higher education.

Eman Fatima [00:18:59]:

I think far along in two years, I think it's not going to change that much. But if I talk about like five years or ten years, I think it will bring some changes because AI is making its place known to everyone and I think in five to ten years, Pakistan will be in its place where innovation is there, where using AI is as normal as using social media and anything else. So I think in five to ten years there will be some changes regarding AI.

Jordan [00:19:29]:

All right, perfect. Well, hey, that's it. Eman, thank you so much for coming on the show. Very much appreciate your perspective in bringing these important conversations to life. So thank you for joining us.

Eman Fatima [00:19:42]:

Thank you. Thank you for giving me time and giving me a chance to let people know about the taboos in Pakistan regarding AI.

Jordan [00:19:50]:

All right, fantastic. So like Eman said, we're going to be sharing more of this in our daily newsletter. So some of the things that she referenced, we're going to be sharing about those. So make sure you go to your everydayai.com. This is also on a podcast. Make sure Spotify, Apple podcast, wherever you get your podcast, please subscribe. Leave us a rating if you like the show. So thank you for joining us and we'll see you back not tomorrow, but Monday and every day after that on Everyday AI. Thank you.

Eman Fatima [00:20:20]:

Yeah, thank you. Looking forward to the Monday's podcast. Bye.

Gain Extra Insights With Our Newsletter

Sign up for our newsletter to get more in-depth content on AI