Ep 199: Maximizing The Effectiveness of AI in Health Care

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AI Transforming Health Care: Maximizing Effectiveness through Innovation

As technology grows in line with our ever-evolving society, the incorporation of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in healthcare systems across the globe takes center stage

Harnessing Virtual Nurse Technology

In a bid to increase efficiency in healthcare, advancements like Virtual Nurse Technology have been introduced to engage patients before surgery and collate all vital information without actual diagnosis or treatment procedures. This technology acts as a bridge between medical personnel and patients, ensuring a smooth flow of accurate and necessary information.

AI Administrative Simplification

AI has reached nearly every corner of healthcare administration - messaging filtering, managing schedules, and even supply chain management. With AI's distinct capability to process large volumes of data swiftly and accurately, administrative tasks are streamlined, leading to enhanced productivity within healthcare systems.

AI in Imaging and Diagnosis

The emergence of AI in the field of imaging, radiology, and cardiology has shown notable potential. Soon most images may not just be interpreted, but initially read by AI. This technology allows for highly effective and more reconcilable image readings, which can significantly improve early detection and diagnosis.

Navigating Privacy and Data Protection Concerns

While the integration of AI in healthcare induces excitement for a multitude of reasons, it also raises important questions about patient data privacy. Patients are urged to be cautious when interacting with AI applications and to prioritize companies demonstrating utmost transparency and a commitment to protecting personal data.

Creating an Innovation Ecosystem

Despite previous negative experiences with technology in healthcare, an innovation ecosystem is being established where equitable technological progression is the focal interest. This approach aims to learn from past drawbacks while designing a more intimate connection between healthcare professionals and AI technology.

AI to Assist, Not Replace

The critical message conveyed is that AI should be designed to supplement human capabilities, not replace them. Using AI should boost a worker's productivity and make complex tasks easier, much like using a calculator for lengthy mathematical calculations.

Addressing the Healthcare Workforce Crisis

Workforce scarcity in healthcare is a mounting concern. AI and technology play a quintessential role in augmenting the capacity of healthcare teams. By reducing time spent on mundane tasks, medical personnel can devote their efforts to patient care, increasing efficiency, and ultimately decreasing instances of professional burnout.

AI and Patient-Centric Care

With such advancements, there is a potential to develop personalized AI models with which patients can interact directly. By working hand in hand with healthcare organizations, patients can access their medical data, cultivating a deeper understanding of their health.

AI in Healthcare

While the inception of AI in healthcare promises numerous benefits, it is vital to be mindful of the potential limitations and appropriate uses. There should be a steadfast focus on governance, transparency, privacy, and matters concerning AI algorithms used by insurance firms.

At the end of the day, the goal of integrating AI into healthcare should be to advance medical science and improve public health and well-being.

Video Insights

Topics Covered in This Episode

1. AI Innovations in Healthcare
2. Implementation Challenges and Concerns
3. The Impact of AI on Healthcare Professionals
4. The AMA's Principles and Guidelines for AI Use

Podcast Transcript

Jordan Wilson [00:00:17]:
How can the medical field really maximize the effectiveness of AI? It's something we hear about all of the time, You know, in in day to day business life, AI is everywhere, but it's also everywhere when it comes to to medical, when it comes to health care. And it's something that even for me personally, I've always talked about how AI and in the health care field is so far ahead, So many advancements, and sometimes I wonder how, and sometimes I wonder what the future of AI and health care is going to look like. So we're gonna be talking about that today With actually the president of the American Medical Association. So I'm excited for that, and welcome to Everyday AI. If you're new here, thank you for joining us. My name is Jordan Wilson, and I am the host. And everyday AI, it's it's for you. It's for us.

Jordan Wilson [00:01:04]:
It's for everyone. It's helping us all better Learn and leverage generative AI to grow our companies and to grow our careers. So before we dive into today's conversation about maximizing the effectiveness of AI in health care, Let's first start as we always do by going over the AI news. Alright. So first, a former Google DeepMind researcher has launched an AI startup for agents. Alright. So former Google DeepMind AI researcher and his colleagues are launching an AI agent startup. This move could potentially compete with other AI agent start ups and may align with Google's interest in developing more conversational AI chatbots.

Jordan Wilson [00:01:43]:
Google DeepMind has previously had high profile AI departures, including 3 researchers leaving to start an AI lab. Other AI startups founded by Google alumni. I mean, it's a long list, but include some big ones such as Character AI, Mistral, Sakana AI, and Rekha AI. Alright. Next. Amazon Alexa officially has a smart AI friend named Rufus. Alright. So Amazon has just launched Rufus, a generative AI powered shopping assistant for its mobile app.

Jordan Wilson [00:02:14]:
Rufus can answer customer questions, make recommendations, and also facilitate product discovery, all while using AI to improve the shopping experience. So, Rufus is currently in beta, and will gradually be released to more customers in the coming weeks. Alright. Last but not least, I'd say a pretty big piece of news after, I'd say, more than a year of speculation. But, Tim Cook has confirmed Apple's AI offerings are coming this year. So Apple CEO Tim Cook has confirmed during a quarterly earnings call that the upcoming Ios 18 will feature comprehensive AI features fueled by deep integration across the entire hardware software platform. So this is in response to, obviously, these ongoing rumors that Apple is falling behind competitors such as Microsoft and Google in in the AI space. So Tim Cook mentions that Apple's investment in AI and promises to share more details At the WWDC, the worldwide developer conference in June.

Jordan Wilson [00:03:14]:
So, Cook's comments seem to be a response to just the ongoing criticism that Apple's falling behind, you know, as, you know, the Googles and the Microsofts and the NVIDIA's of the world and Samsung. You know? Everyone's been been and pushing generative AI and now in devices and phones and wearables that you know, I've always said, Apple is never first at the party, but Sometimes they're the coolest kid even even if they show up late. So, that should be, some exciting news. So if you want to know about that and more, Make sure to go to your everyday ai.com. We're gonna have much more on those news stories as well as a recap of today's, guest, which I'm extremely, happy to talk about. But as a reminder, we have so much other great information on our website. Even, you know, probably 5, 6, 7, 8 different, health care episodes that we've had so far, but I think today's is going to be a great one. So, I'm very excited To bring on here in a second, the president of the American Medical Association.

Jordan Wilson [00:04:10]:
So let's dive in if you are joining us live. Special treat today. I'm sure all of you have have questions about how AI is being used in health care, so make sure to get those questions in. But now let's go ahead and please help me welcome to the show. There we go. We have doctor Jesse Ernefeld, the president of the American Medical Association. Doctor Ernefeld, thank you so much for joining us.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:04:32]:
Thanks for having me. Good morning. That new shopping AI, assistant makes me a little frightened, especially if my husband gets a hold of it. Who Who knows what'll happen to our Amazon account?

Jordan Wilson [00:04:42]:
Yeah. Like like we needed any more, you you know, like, incentives to accidentally buy a lot more at Amazon. Right?

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:04:48]:

Jordan Wilson [00:04:49]:
But, you you know, doctor Anfel, you you know, well, first of all, thank you so much for for taking the time to join us. Sure. But, you know, maybe just tell us a little bit about, you know, for those that aren't familiar, What is the, American Medical Association, and, you know, what is kind of, your role as president? What do you oversee?

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:05:04]:
Yeah. Well well, thanks for that. The American Medical Association, and Old name, the largest, most influential group, representing physicians across the country founded in 18/47, founded back in the day Actually, to professionalize the practice of medicine. Our mission pretty simple, advance the art and science of medicine, The betterment of public health, and we got our roots stamping out snake oil and quack remedies, and it's come full circle with misinformation and And digital snake oil, and a lot of junk online that we're trying to get rid of. So we do a lot of work to make sure that patients have access to high quality care and Doctors and physicians have access to tools that they need to practice effectively.

Jordan Wilson [00:05:45]:
You know what? You I love that you tied it back to kind of, the AMA's Origins and, you know, going against this snake oil because, you know, I think that a lot of people have so many misconceptions about Artificial intelligence, and, you know, in all aspects of their lives, but probably one of them is, you know, in medical. Right? It's something that we all experience. We all experience health care in different ways. So maybe let's just start, like, super high level because I know that, you know, pretty pretty recently, just a couple of months ago, the AMA, Kind of re released, you know, some updated standards or principles on AI. Can you just give everyone just a quick overview on on what those, you know, new principles are.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:06:26]:
Yeah. No. That's great. And and the principles that we released in the fall, are building on work that we've been doing for the last 6 years. Our our first AI guidelines were in 2018, so this is not new for us. We're obviously trying to keep up with it. But as the space is evolving, As the the federal government through the president's executive order is trying to create this whole of government regulatory approach, we wanna make sure that We've got the right policy to engage with regulators and support patients and physicians. So the principles focus on on 8 different areas.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:06:58]:
How should these tools be governed? How should we have transparency? So when you walk into your doctor's office and there's a tool that's being used on you, You know, should you know about that, right, that the AI is there? What should we require in terms of disclosures about the the technology and its use itself? There are some special considerations, obviously, for generative AI and large language models, that are in the principles. There are issues around liabilities. So if you use a Tool. Your doctor uses a tool and something goes wrong. Right? There's a there's a hallucination in in in an LLM that causes you harm. Well, who's holding the bag, right, when there's when there's, an injury to a patient? There's there's stuff in there about privacy, data privacy, cybersecurity, and a little bit of attention to third party payers, those insurance companies who, are using algorithms we know every day to make decisions about who gets care, who doesn't get care, and we're very worried about the potential use of AI in those algorithms that could potentially harm patients. So That's the the quick snapshot of the principles. There's a lot there.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:08:02]:
It's all free. It's on our website, amadashassn.org if people wanna check it out.

Jordan Wilson [00:08:07]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And and we'll be linking to all of those, kind of the different areas that you talked about in the updated guidelines. But, You know, one thing that you, kind of mentioned there at the end, doctor Ernefeld, is is, you know, the decision making. Right? And and, you know, making sure that, you know, third parties Are using artificial, in in intelligence in a responsible and in ethical manner. Can you just talk a little bit about, like, what are the challenges of of, you know, Even when you, have to look at all of the different ways that you know? Because the AMA is you know, it touches, you know, it touches patients everywhere, you know, throughout the country. So So what are some of the challenges with these new regulations and, you you know, the enforcement? Because, you know, now, I think more than ever, You know, data and and security is is on everyone's mind. So what are the biggest challenges in actually enforcing that and and making sure that, you know, Kind of these protections trickle down.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:09:00]:
So the the biggest challenge is we we don't have a regulatory framework today in America that can effectively manage this technology. So there's there's there's 2 spaces. There's the the regulated product space that the FDA has oversight over. You know, and that will only be a fraction of the market for AI enabled digital tools that are in the health and wellness space. And then there's all the consumer facing product stuff. So I was at the CES meeting in Las Vegas, and not only do we have flying cars and, You know, robots and all of the big TVs, but, you know, CES is now the largest digital health meeting in the world, and there is a flood of consumer facing products that won't fall into that FDA regulated product space. So as the as the government tries to figure out What does it need to do to make sure that we only have safe and effective products that are actually helpful in the marketplace? We've got a lot of a lot of to do, and and and our standpoint is that, you know, health AI ought to be designed, developed, and deployed in a manner It is ethical, equitable, responsible, and transparent. And if we're gonna make sure that that happens, there is gonna have to be work done on on the regulatory side.

Jordan Wilson [00:10:17]:
You know, I'm since you brought it up, I'm just curious. Right? Because we're we're we're all looking at CES. You know? If if if you care about technology, if you care about, AI, I think, You know, everyone had their eyes on the conference there. You know, even for you, what kind of caught your eye, you know, in in, you know, when it came to I'm sure there's a lot of, you know, related companies there, you know, who are launching new products or, you know, software. What caught your eye specifically, when it when it came to, you know, AI innovations in the medical and in the health care space.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:10:48]:
You know, the the one product that really blew me away is, an Italian company. They make high end glassware. I I don't wear glasses, but they have a set of frames, that look like a beautiful set of Italian design frames. They only come in black right now, but they've built in, an AI hearing assistive technology. The frame is no larger or wider or thicker than a a pair of glasses you'd buy today. But what happens is whoever you're looking at in a crowded room, across a dinner table, in a conference hall is using some, amazing technology to hone in on just that voice, and amplify it using bone conduction so that you can hear crystal clear the person that you actually wanna have a conversation with. So for People with mild to moderate hearing loss that may not be eligible or or or need a hearing aid in a regular setting, you think about what that kind of technology can can do and and and how that can be incredibly helpful. So that's obviously a a consumer facing thing that is is not likely to be regulated by by the FDA, but potentially very helpful for lots of people like my, my father-in-law who sometimes has a hard time hearing what's going on when people are gathered around the dinner table.

Jordan Wilson [00:12:01]:
Yeah. I think I think there's so many, you know, ways like that that you might think, oh, you know, this is a a nice upgrade or a nice little product, but, yeah, I mean, there's so many, you know, things that can be, incorporated into hardware that can really be life changing. You know, 1 question I had. So, you know, you talked here in November, you know, updating these, kind of AI regulations that were in place until 2018. You know, I'm curious, you know, even in the last 5 years because, you know, artificial intelligence obviously isn't new, in the medical field, but how much, You know, has the, you know, AI, you know, innovations changed in health care in just 5 years since, you know, that that that last, you know, update to those AI policies.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:12:47]:
Well, 2 things have changed. 1 is we're moving quickly. 38% of US practices are using AI today. Now it's not for the sexy stuff. It's it's not for diagnosing Jordan's, you know, problem, your stomachache. It's for back end office operations, supply chain management scheduling, billing optimization, but the clinical applications are coming quickly. The challenge for us is that they're point solutions. Right? You know, there's a a very specific tool, a very specifically optimized algorithm, for one area of one part of clinical practice.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:13:22]:
What we're starting to see emerge and and where we really need to go if this is gonna work at scale Our AI platforms with multiple use cases that are are more flexible. That's starting to happen. There are a lot of companies working on those kinds of products, but there are still some really, really helpful things. So I I will tell you one of the most, widely used, types of products right now in health care in a professional setting, is an ambient dictation. And this is not really exciting for patients necessarily, but it changes the interaction markedly. And, and so And meditation just for people who don't know, you know, different versions of this, but but often, you know, a a small device, with a microphone, that's sitting in in the, exam room so that when I walk in to see a patient, I don't have to type the note. The note is generated automatically in a beautiful pristine format, you know, using a large language model, on the back end or sometimes other companies that use, LLMs to do the 1st path, and then they have scribes that are cleaning the note up so that there's a human in the loop who makes sure that the note is is is perfect. Those technologies and and there are a bunch of studies on this are saving tremendous amounts of time, and and I'm aware of at least one circumstance where, a physician who got this, got one of these devices, one of these products that integrates with the EMRs, they don't have to cut and paste.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:14:44]:
It just shows up. Cried Because for the first time in months, she got to be home with her family for dinner. She didn't have to sit after hours Typing all of these notes. And patients, you know, imagine having your doctor actually look at you as opposed to typing away on the keyboard when you're talking about things that are most important. So there are places that these models are gonna be so helpful. We're only scratching the surface today. We wanna make sure that we get the regulation right so that we don't stifle innovation, but that we have safety parameters for patients and physicians alike.

Jordan Wilson [00:15:18]:
What what you brought up there, I think it's actually worth exploring a little bit more because even when I talk to, you know, business leaders not in health care, They say that that exact same thing is one of the most impactful things for their work. Right? So if you're a lot of people are in, you know, Zoom meetings all day and, you know, yeah, you're either typing notes or you're having to spend, you know, so much time, you know, afterwards trying to follow-up with all of that. You know, how how has even just that 1, you know, aspect right there, bringing the, you know, kind of voice dictations and and large language models Into, the, you know, offices across the country, how impactful do you think that actually is, and, you know, how does that improve the quality of health care or maybe even patient outcomes.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:16:04]:
I I think it's really impactful, and and look, physicians, Nurses are burnt out. We've seen the data. It is awful. At the peak of COVID, nearly 2 out of 3 physicians were experiencing symptoms of burnout. People saying that they're gonna reduce their hours, leave the profession. We already have a workforce crisis. I don't know last time, Jordan, you tried to find a new primary care doctor, but, like, good luck. We do not have enough people to deliver care today the way that we've been delivering it for the last 50 years.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:16:33]:
The only way we're gonna get out of this crunch It's not by doubling the size of medical schools and nursing schools. We're already doing that, and it's not helping. It's not fast enough. We're gonna have to lean on the technology To boost the capabilities of our teams to augment our capacity, and and that's actually why anecdotally, the the AMA likes to talk about AI in a health care context as augmented intelligence

Jordan Wilson [00:16:56]:

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:16:57]:
Not artificial intelligence because we really don't see it as a replacement for our health care teams. We see it as a force multiplier. How can I see more patients, more efficiently, more effectively, using these tools?

Jordan Wilson [00:17:09]:
You know, what what you brought up there, I think, is Extremely important because, you know, especially, you know, post COVID, you know, I I I think so many people in the health care industry, you you know, are, yes, experiencing the burnout like you just said there or maybe, you know, everyone else is just just more aware of, you know, the the the stresses that are on, You know, you know, nurses, physicians, etcetera. How specifically you know, aside from, you know, that example that we just talked about, you know, kind of having your, Doctor notes, you know, dictated so, you know, your doctor can, you know, really focus on providing better care and to be less burned out, but what other ways can AI actually help, You know, in the future or or or maybe other, you know, technologies that might make their way into whether it's the back office or, you know, actually in the room Between physician and doctor or between physician and patients. What are other ways that, you you know, we might see some of that relief from a company? There are

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:18:05]:
there are so many circumstances where, you know, we We have electronic health records. Theoretically, I should be able to find anything I need about a patient when I walk in. That's not what happens. And let me just give you example. I I'm an anesthesiologist. I walk into pre op holding. I meet a patient. I'm gonna take care of her surgery.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:18:22]:
I, you know, I go through all this stuff. I think I'm a pretty sophisticated user of electronic health records. I've looked up her chart. I go in. I I wrap up. I'm about to walk out, and she goes, oh, doc. One other thing. And I said, Sure, ma'am.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:18:35]:
What what is it? She was I I just don't want, this time happening what happened the last time. And I said, what happened the last time? She says, Well, I had a cardiac arrest in recovery, and I was like, woah. Tell me about that. So she told me about it, and I went back in buried in a nursing note, Not in any structured field, not in any place that I thought to look was, yes, this woman had an arrest, and it was obviously very relevant to what we were about to do. And you could imagine a future where these AI tools could surface really important information that's context specific. You know, unfortunately, interoperability and and electronic health records talking across systems and health information exchanges

Jordan Wilson [00:19:16]:

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:19:16]:
Has created Accessibility of in of of inform of of data, but it's a data deluge. It's not information that's actually actionable or or helpful. So You could imagine how AI could help sift through, you know, the chart in ways that could elevate information that would be much more relevant and important for the person at at the point of care. And I'm sure that has to be, a challenging thing, right, for for physicians all over the country,

Jordan Wilson [00:19:43]:
You know, knowing what, especially generative AI. You know? You mentioned, you know, oh, you know, that that's unstructured. You know? Like, structured data can probably be a little easier to To work with unstructured data, yeah, there's there's probably other, you know, things that you have to keep in mind. But even when it comes to, you know, The protected health information. You know? That's that's a big thing. So how do you balance? Right? How do you balance the the need, for, you know, smarter technology with AI. You know, there are some great capabilities that you can implement. So how do you balance that with the need of still protecting That data because that's obviously some of the most important, you know, data any person has is is their health data.

Jordan Wilson [00:20:22]:
So how do you balance that?

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:20:23]:
Well, it it starts with transparency and and knowing when a tool is operating and knowing when your data is leaving and environment covered by HIPAA and and and, and I'll give you the 2 examples. So so imagine I walk into an operating room, and I turn on a ventilator, and I'm giving anesthesia, and that ventilator has an AI algorithm built into it that's trying to optimize the ventilation parameters, The rate, the title volumes, the pressures, and I don't know that it's doing that and something goes wrong. How can I Step in as the human in the loop who's the ultimate backstop to make sure that the patient's not harmed to supervise and correct if I don't know that there's an algorithm operating? Well, we've seen this and Happen in other industries like with the 737 max, right, where we lost 2 aircraft tragically because Boeing put in an AI safety system that the pilots didn't know about. Wasn't in the operations manual. Nobody got training on it. We can't do that in health care. So we've gotta have transparency when these, algorithms are are built into our workflows. The other issue is is privacy.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:21:24]:
So, you know, people think HIPAA solves everything, and it protects your data. Well, It does for a covered entity, but as soon as you authorize, an app to have access to your health data that's not a covered entity, right, they don't deliver health care and services or engaged in a way that they're fall under these federal protections, you know, the cat's out of the bag. And there are opportunities that the federal government, frankly, has not really availed themselves of, to put in consumer protections so that when you allow Your health data to go outside of a HIPAA protected environment, you have awareness of that, and that's something that I think is gonna be really, really important when I think about How transparency needs to be used to protect patients and their privacy.

Jordan Wilson [00:22:07]:
You know, I think the the HIPAA aspect is obviously is is and Huge, right, when it comes to, you know, ethically using data. But, you know, I'm I'm curious, you know, because even for me personally, right, like, You know, you you kind of alluded to earlier, like, well, when was the last time you tried to find a primary care? Well, you know, not not recently because I know, at least for me, it can take months to see a primary, care physician, which, You know, I I know they're overloaded. The system is overloaded. Might there be a time in the near future, right, where I can say as a, You know, private individual, I can say yes. You know, health care company, you know, access all my data, but allow me to or maybe allow my doctor to have a conversation with my data or allow me to, you know, kind of similarly to, you know, this, you know, Rufus Amazon assistant that we talked about for shopping. Might that come where we have more, you know, personalized AI models that patients can chat with, that has access all of their data, But that is still somehow, you know, pseudo official through the health care organization. Would that ever be, you know, something we might see, or is there just too much risk in something like that?

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:23:11]:
We're we're already seeing it, and what we're seeing, though, are relatively narrow use cases. So there's there there's a company, out right now that is developing basically a a virtual nurse, but it's not a nurse that's diagnosing, and the company is very clear about this. They're not there to diagnose. They're not there to treat. They're there to engage patients to make sure that when they're getting ready for surgery and they have that phone call a week out, that they get all the information that they need. And it's, you know, trained on thousands and thousands of actual conversations with nurses. It has access to the medical records, So it knows things about you to bring into the conversation, and it learns. So if if if you talk in the 1st conversation about how you're worried about your pet or something, you know, That comes up the 2nd time that that you talk to us.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:23:56]:
So those kinds of technologies that can really help on the engagement side, I think, are really, really promising. Obviously, We want people to take ownership of their health, and that means that we can leverage potentially these generative tools to Engage people in their conversations in ways that we've never thought possible before.

Jordan Wilson [00:24:14]:
No. It's it's it's almost like you were answering this question before it even came up, But, you know, very much related. So, you know, Tara here is asking, and thanks for your question. And if you have 1, please get it in. But Tara's asking, how close are we to To developing that, you know, big hero 6, you know, type, you know, where there's this, you know, nice kind of friendly robot companion, but how close are we to something like that. You said that there's kind of, you know, some of those, technologies being being worked on or some being, you know, kind of rolled out, but how close are we to that, and is that kind of where we're

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:24:46]:
So, look, I I I think these virtual agents are very interesting. They have specific places where they'll be helpful. There's a lot of research about, you know, autonomous agents and lonely elderly people who don't have family and and and providing support. And I I think those use cases, will have a have a place in society in the future, but AI will not replace physicians, but physicians who use AI We'll replace those who don't.

Jordan Wilson [00:25:13]:
Yeah. You know, I'm I'm curious. Even even for yourself, how are you using, AI in your practice? And, You know, I'd love to even just hear your, perspective as a physician, how that how has that changed things, you know, for you, for your practice, and for your patients?

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:25:30]:
So the the place that AI has come into, my practice personally is mostly behind the scenes administrative simplification work. So, You know, our health care system now is using some AI tools to just help with filtering messages, the inbox, making sure that as we're interacting with patients, we can more effectively and more efficiently respond to, all of the hundreds of thousands of messages that are peppering, our physicians and my myself included. Our our practice is also using some of these tools sort of for for back end billing operations and Schedulings in supply chain management. I I don't use it, but I have colleagues in in imaging, radiology, and cardiology Who are using point solutions to assist with, you know, reading films, and doing image interpretation, and those kinds of cases are are are are are becoming much, much more common. And I I I think it will be not long, where we we have a future where most images are read primarily by a machine with a human then doing the ovary to understand where Where things need to be, to be looked at.

Jordan Wilson [00:26:40]:
Yeah. It's, it's fascinating. You know, it's fascinating to see that, you know, even with, you know, things as simple as, You know, chat GPT. You know, I I know a lot of people. You know, there's a very famous kind of post that went viral about, you know, the new vision and capabilities, correctly identifying, you know, certain breaks on X rays. So not gonna get into that because I don't think, you know, people should be probably using CHI GPT as a as a doctor at least. But, what what though should, patients though keep in mind, about AI? Because I'm sure in the coming months and in the coming years, you at their health care systems. They're gonna start to see, you know, little offerings pop up that hopefully helps make the, you know, patient and physician experience better, but what should patients keep in mind or what should they know about AI from a medical perspective?

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:27:27]:
So I I think the first thing is that if you put your private medical information into chat GPT, it is not protected. So that is a bad idea. Please do not do that. So there's just the, like, how can you protect your own information? And, obviously, by treating it with love and care and respect, and keeping it confidential is is important. So don't give it away to any app that you download, without really understanding where that information is going. That that's the first thing. The second thing is, really, you know, companies are gonna need to earn the trust of consumers. And that's only gonna happen if they, you know, adhere to best practices, Treat data with care and respect and are transparent about what they're doing.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:28:08]:
So if if you're gonna use one of these consumer facing, Applications that's not really designed for a health care professional. You know, look who's making it, where it's coming from. And if it's a company that is reputable, and there's transparency about what they're doing with your data, you're probably gonna have a higher likelihood of engaging in a successful

Jordan Wilson [00:28:29]:
You know, great great question here from, from Britney. Looks like she's a BSN RN. So Britney's asking, what are the what are your recommendations for approaching clinicians who are doubtful or maybe not on board with AI? Such a great question. Like, what how do yeah. So whether it's a a nurse or someone, you know, who's working back and in an office, how do you, you know, No. Approach someone and maybe, talk to them about that.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:28:54]:
So, look, we did a a nationally representative survey of physicians in August. We released the findings in November. 40% of physicians in the US today are equally excited about AI as they are terrified. So, you know, if you're curious and maybe you think there's something there but also a little anxious, you're you're not alone. Right? That that's where we are today, because, look, physicians, nurses, we've all been burned by bad tech. Right? Like, the rollout of electronic health records was the most and Painful experience. It was the number 1 physician dissatisfier for years running because of so many usability issues, Because of so many workflow disconnects, and yet we had 1,000,000,000 of federal incentive dollars driving the adoption of a technology that just wasn't ready for prime time. So I think there's a little bit of, you know, a lingering, Reluctance because of that experience.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:29:52]:
You know, a lot of hype, a lot of promise, a lot of money going towards the adoption of these technologies. So we wanna make sure we've got technologies to work. The AMA has put a ton of effort into creating an innovation ecosystem. We have, a Silicon Valley based innovation company, health 2047. We have our AI principles. We have our blueprint for health, which is how do you have equitable innovation, including a AI. We have our physician innovation network, which, by the way, free online platform. There are 18,000 people on it plus now.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:30:23]:
It's a way for, health care professionals, trainees, and companies to connect to have those conversations about how do we get really, really good products into the marketplace. So if you're interested in any of those places to plug in or find resources, again, you can check out the AMES website.

Jordan Wilson [00:30:39]:
Oh, that's fantastic. We'll make sure to, definitely include that 1, in the newsletter. Free resources that educate, I think, very, very much needed across all sectors. But, so so, doctor Ernaudfeld, we we've talked about a lot in this episode. So, you know, we've talked about, you know, the updated AMA guidelines on AI, the importance for protecting data, kind of where the industry is is headed in general. But maybe what's your you know, as we wrap up, what's your one Most, important takeaway or your best piece of advice, you know, maybe for both patients and for physicians when it comes to Maximizing AI, in the health care space.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:31:16]:
So I I think we have to recognize AI for what it is, and realize that there are certain things that we should just never ask AI to do, like launch a nuclear weapon. Right? We should not ask AI to be the be all, end all replacement for a physician or a nurse. We should use it to boost our capabilities. You know, you shouldn't use chat GPT to do math. You know, if you ask it 13 times 24, it will give you the wrong answer. Right? Because it's just trying to predict the next word. As long as you understand what the tool is doing, its limitations, and where it can be useful, you'll be in a good spot.

Jordan Wilson [00:31:51]:
Yeah. Such great advice. This was a fantastic conversation. Doctor Jesse Arnold, president of the American Medical Association, thank you so much for joining the Everyday AI Show. We really appreciate it.

Jesse Ehrenfeld, MD, MPH [00:32:02]:
Thanks, Jordan.

Jordan Wilson [00:32:03]:
Hey. As a reminder, so much good information. Doctor resources and education pieces. We're gonna make sure to throw that in our newsletter. So thank you for joining. Thank you for tuning in. Go to your everyday AI.com. Sign up for that free daily newsletter.

Jordan Wilson [00:32:20]:
Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you back for more everyday

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