Ep 49: AI in Recruiting – How Does It Work?


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Jordan [00:00:17]:

Can you use AI to actually find a better job? That's one of the things that we're gonna be talking about today on everyday AI I'm Jordan Wilson. I'm your host, and we talk about everything in the world of AI here on this show. So helping you stay up to date everyday people to learn and leverage AI. There's always so much going on, and you can spend countless hours a day trying to keep up with what's going on in the AI world and how it affects your job and your career, or you can spend a couple minutes with everyday AI.

Daily AI news

So before we talk about using AI in as how recruiters are doing it and how job seekers can also use AI. Let's first talk about what's going on. in the world that's impacting your job, your career. So let's talk about it. So couple news pieces today. Runway just announced that they raised a $141,000,000. So Runway, I think, is a huge company that not a lot of people are talking about. So When you think of generative AI, most people think of of companies like OpenAI and ChatGPT or Google Bard or maybe image generators like Mid Journey or Dolly. But I think Runway is an underdog, and I think that they're a powerhouse. So they are a generative AI for multiple media sources, but mainly video and creating movement in your images. It's a great tool that we're gonna share about more in the newsletter.

Next piece of news, Microsoft unveiled that it is releasing its 1st professional certificate for generative AI skills. So it's doing so via LinkedIn, so make sure that you check that one out in the newsletter if you are looking to get a professional certification for generative AI.

Third piece of news before we talk about AI and recruiting. So there is a draft. The draft EU legislation kind of putting down the rules over how Europe is going to use generative AI. It's it's this close to passing, but now A lot of executives are starting to warn politicians in saying that it could hurt it could hurt the European Union. So That's something I've always said, you know, at least here in the US, I don't think that we're gonna have rules as strict as the EU is and how they are trying to at least police, you know, the use of generative AI and and what it can and can't be used for. So It's gonna be interesting to see how this EU first kind of rule over AI rolls out and how it's going to affect other countries and how they look at AI and how they even govern AI. So that's it. If you want to check out more news and we do this every single weekday, make sure you go to your everydayai.com. Sign up for the free daily newsletter. We put a ton of work into it so you don't have to be confused about what's going on in the world of AI and how it affects you. We do all of that work for you.

So now I'm extremely excited. I don't think we've had a recruiter on the show yet. So this should hopefully be a treat whether you're a recruiter out there or you're a job seeker. So let me bring on to the show our guest for today. We have Kyle Stock, who is a recruiter at Ozinga. Kyle, thank you for joining the show.

Kyle [00:03:40]: 

Jordan, thanks so much for having me. Super excited to be here.

Jordan [00:03:43]:

Let's go. Alright. We already have a couple of questions. So as a reminder, you know, we do this as a livestream also as a podcast. So you're listening on the podcast later, make sure to join us live 7:30 AM Central Standard Time. And and ask some questions. So we already have. Hello from Dallas, Nancy Hall. I believe you're your coworker, Kyle. Hello from Chicago, Saeta. Hello. Long time no see. Great to have you back on the show. So if you do have a question, feel free to drop it on at any time whether it's, you know, how recruiters can be using AI or just tips for job seekers. Make sure to just go ahead and throw that comment in for Kyle. So let's talk about it right now.

Kyle's advice to those searching for jobs/laid off

So before we even put on, Kyle, our AI hat. Let's just first talk about just the the the the current landscape of, you know, jobs in general. Right? I think people are, you know, worried about AI and how it might impact their jobs. But even outside of that, there's obviously been a lot of layoffs going on across the country. Before we, again, talk about AI, what would your advice be to people maybe who have been hit with a layoff or they just really can't find that next job.

Kyle [00:04:51]:

Yeah. You know, Jordan, the so the landscape, you know, from my perspective is super Super interesting. So we have this, you know, this this, I guess, phenomena going on where we have all these layoffs in certain industries, but we still seem to be, you know, at an employment or I I I would say an employee shortage, you know, trying trying to find work as a recruiter, trying to find people to come and work for our company, And so, yeah, you know, my my advice would be to a lot you know, a lot of these people that have been laid off is you know, kinda just stay the course. You know, we at Ozenga, you know, hit me up. We're we're looking for people, but, you know, in all seriousness, I would say stay the course. you know, attend any webinars you can in terms of, you know, interview prep and things like that. grow your network as much as possible. I'm someone who is still fairly young in in their career, and I never really understood the power of a network until I began my my kind of my corporate career. And and and it it really is kind of this this amazing tool that that people can really use. So, yeah, I would really say stay the course. Expand your network. Things will come.

Jordan [00:06:17]:

And -- Yeah. -- that's that's really all I have. That's great that's great advice just for any job seekers, whether, you know, you've been recently laid off trying to get your shop or your next job, great advice there, Kyle. So, you know, you you mentioned something outside of your network you said. There's amazing tools out there. So one amazing tool, I think, is AI. You you know, there's generative AI that can help people. So before we talk about it on the job seekers side, how do you see you know, just the recruiting industry using these generative AI tools, you know, like, you know, text to image kind of like what we were talking about or, you know, probably more prominently, tools like Google Bard or ChatGPT, how can recruiters use those to even improve their performance?

AI tools for recruiters to use

Kyle [00:07:00]:

Yeah. So, man, there are just I mean, kinda like I said, so many tools out there. I'm still discovering new ones every day and and, you know, disclaimer. I am by no means, you know, an AI Genius or Savant, I am just someone who really likes to kinda see what the computer can come up with. So but, anyways, you know, I think recruiters will we'll definitely be using AI in the way that kinda we're using it right now. So, you know, we're using it to kinda create cold cold emails. And for those of you that don't know what it is, a cold email is, you know, if we're going after a passive candidate, someone who's not you know, necessarily looking for a job, we can use Bard or ChatGPT to kinda create this this message you know, that would really be written in in any tone that we want and it can be written in the style of the recruiter. Mhmm. And, you know, it seems to have really great benefits We use it for text campaigns. You know, I I've used it for LinkedIn posts. I see Rex Jamieson is is commenting I've tried to get some LinkedIn posts past him, but, you know, he knows that they're he knows they're written by AI, but, you know, we we we definitely use it for a lot of different things. And and kind of what I mentioned to Jordan earlier is just, you know, I think that this could really kind of grant talent teams in HR in general a more strategic way of thinking and way of operating. So kind of this thought of, you know, where are we going instead of where are we at now. So just just kind of being part of the future and and kinda going that way with AI, I think recruiters will find it very useful. Whether you're a recruiter at a recruitment agency or a corporate recruiter for a company, whatever I think that AI and generative generative AI and specific

Jordan [00:08:59]:

can really get rid of some monotonous tasks for you. So -- Yeah. Yeah. And and speaking of that because, you know, Kyle, you just talked about a variety of ways that that recruiters can use, you know, generative AI to in improve in their workflow. But maybe what's the one most impactful way that that you've used generative AI to help in your workflow. And and maybe if you can just briefly talk about you know, what that process is like without, you you know, the AI and then how much, you you know, improved or how much different it is with it?

Using AI to generate concise job descriptions

Kyle [00:09:37]:

Sure. Yeah. So I I would say the biggest impact I've seen that we've used even on our team would be so we have these these fairly large job descriptions at Ozenga. You know, it's it's it's a thing that, you know, legal department needs and our HR compliance team needs, but we feel that, you know, the candidate doesn't really need to see that until maybe they're hired. So we we feel that what they're seeing on a job posting should be a you know, more of a job advertisement. So, really, what what we've been doing is taking these long you know, job descriptions and throwing them into a generative AI, whether it's ChatGPT or Bard. I prefer Bard. But, anyways, So we we throw it in there. And depending on the role, I usually say, you know, to the AI, give me a fun job description that's pretty concise. And then I I kinda leave it general like that at first to see what it comes up with. And then it's really kind of this give and take between the AI. It's it's man, I'm I'm I'm hesitant to say it's an art form, but it's really like this. this working with the AI to kind of whittle it down. So recruiters out there, this is not a tool where you can just hit enter and then copy and paste what it gives you. There is a webinar I I I attended to in March. And the guy said, if you put crap in, you're gonna get crap out. So you have to know what you're putting in. You have to talk with the AI and kinda whittle it down to your desired response. Mhmm. And so without AI, what what we would do is really you know, kind of just use our creativeness and try to come up with a a job ad. that I mean, in in transparency, it's it's pretty comparable to AI. It just took, you know, more time. You know, I would be running it by you know, my manager and then running it by our VP and then making all these changes and, you know, things like that. Whereas now, it's it's pretty much AI does it. We we make sure everybody on the team likes it, and we post it. Yeah.

Jordan [00:11:50]:

she's speaking speaking everyone on the team, Ozenga's showing up strong today. So a couple of comments I want to throw up here. You know, Nancy saying great to see you, Ozeng. to recruiting having this important conversation. Lauren, thank you for your comment. I was saying it represents. You mentioned a rec here. Yeah. Network he's saying yes. Network as much as possible. Renee, thank you for the comment. Just saying Kyle's giving some great concrete advice. Another comment, Nancy, saying learning Jordan's PPP approach is a game changer. Thank you, Nancy. Yeah. If if if you want more info, just drop PPP. I'll send it to you. So let's let's talk this.

That was a lot of questions, comments. I I just wanted to make sure we got those on the screen. So one thing that's really interesting, Kyle, is I think some people think of using AI as a robotic process. Right? Mhmm. But one thing I noticed that you said is you're putting in something and saying, make this more creative. You know? So Have you seen maybe results that you weren't expecting when you were using AI? Is it almost making it you know, more, like, job descriptions for for you or for Ozenga, more relatable, more personable, and the same thing with the cold email. Right? Like, more personalized. So are you actually getting those kind of results out of it? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I am. And, you know, it's funny you mentioned that there's this kinda robotic aspect that people think that it is.

Kyle [00:13:21]:

So, yeah, I guess to kinda put a long story short. So last week, we had our kind of our our big HR department meeting. And, you know, I had the opportunity to present to the HR department about AI, and So I I played a little game with them. I I I said, is it AI or is it AI being me? And there was there was a cold email on there, and they they kinda had to decipher. Was it AI or was it me? And everybody pretty much thought that it was me just given the maybe the warmness and the the the human touch, but it it really was it it was written by by Bard. And so just just being surprised at, you know, even even without me kind of coaching AI and and saying, Here's some of my writing and write a, you know, write a cold email in my style. Mhmm. It's still able to to kind of have this human humanness, this this human nature not to scare anybody. Robots aren't taking over, but, you know, it it it is It is super interesting, super surprising that I can fool I I can fool some people. So

Jordan [00:14:33]:

man. I love yeah. If you're doing it correctly -- Yeah. -- you you I I tell people this all the time. I teach people this. Yes. You can have you know, these different, you know, GPT powered or Bard, you you know, right just like you. Question here from Scott. So, you know, how are small businesses using AI to find job seekers? So in this case, You know, we'll say, you know, more in a corporate recruiting role. You know? So Kyle, you talked about kind of on the outreach side and the job posting, but maybe how do you use it past that or, you know, in the process once maybe you've identified people.

Recruitment relies on personal choice, not AI

Kyle [00:15:04]:

Yeah. Yeah. So so even with that, you know, if we identify people, like I said, text campaigns are huge. If we've identified, I don't know, let's say, kind of this this candidate pool. May may maybe 3 candidates. You know, we'll send them a text campaign, you know, kinda just asking them some questions or or even just using it for the monotonous task of setting up interviews. And then really really from there, it kinda takes on, you know, a more human approach. We we kinda handle it from there. You know, in in in terms of of really kind of moving forward with candidates, I would not say that we use AI. I I personally I don't know if it's a hot take, but this is kinda where the the human touch. I I think it needs to come in. You know, I think this is where we should not use AI. So up to this Let's say we have a candidate that's being scheduled for an interview. We've used AI to recruit them. We've used AI to even maybe screen their resume and see if they're a fit for the job. This is kind of where the the human connection comes in. So as a recruiter, it you know, it's it's it's my job to really hone in on the character and and and kinda who this person is. The resume is all good. But, you know, at the end of the day, the is, like, a real human being. It's they're not a piece of paper. Will they fit for our company? I think humans will always need to be able to make that decision rather than AI. That's I mean, so at Ozenga, we have this really unique culture And I think it's because of of this this human deduction of, you know, really choosing their candidates, or or or their new hires rather than that AI. And, you know, personally, I don't I don't see that part ever going away.

Jordan [00:16:46]:

Yeah. I I love how, you know, you're talking about the unique culture at Ozinga. You know, you have great like, even even in here, you know, you have great team support. And I also have to throw out something random. Ozinga has the best swag around. So shout out to Ozinga's marketing department. You know, one of my friends is always showing, you know, all these because he's in the industry, all these cool that Ozinga sends out. So, yes, Nancy just just left a comment writing a job ad on her own 30 minutes ChatGPT 5 minutes. Great simple way to show the power of it. So we have a former guest here, Peter shout out, Peter. long question, but saying in a similar in a similar vein of cold emails by recruiters, do you think that people, so now talking job seekers, will begin to use AI to apply jobs to streamline their time so they don't have to sit there and, you know, customize resumes and cover letters. So, yeah, we haven't even started to dig into that, but What's your take on Peter's question there? Yeah. Yeah. Peter, thanks for the question, man. So, yeah, I really do think

Kyle [00:17:55]:

that people will begin if they're not doing it already. You know, there are just loads and loads of AI platforms out there that people don't even know about. that are, you know, creating resumes that are, you know, just submitting them to jobs that, you know and and and I think that that's kind of the essence of Peter's question. So long story short, Peter, yes. I do think people will begin to use AI In the last sentence, you would imagine it will make a, you know, a software that we use. So I'm super happy you brought that up, Peter. So we We currently don't use 1, but there are companies out there that do in kind of a current event. You know, New York kinda just banned or, actually, it's going into effect next week. New York will not allow companies to use this software to kind of screen these resumes. And so it's it's it's super interesting kind of what's going on in the in the legal world with this or, I should say, the political world. But Yeah. Absolutely.

Using AI to get a job

Jordan [00:18:58]:

Yeah. One one other thing because, you know, I did want to kind of open the show on this, so I did wanna talk to it. So You know, from from your perspective as a recruiter, you know, you just kind of touch this scratch the surface with with Peter's question, but how on the flip side, you know, maybe aside from just, you know, using ChatGPT because I think, you know, most or or barred, So I think most job seekers, you know, are probably already doing that to maybe improve their resume. But maybe what are some other ways that job seekers you know, can can can use AI to get their foot in the door. So, you know, what are some of those kind of secrets maybe from a recruiter that you can share with job seekers?

Kyle [00:19:37]:

Yeah. Yeah. So this you know? So to everybody, this is this is, like, top secret. This does not leave this room. So

Jordan [00:19:46]:

we're definitely not streaming this live. You know?

Kyle [00:19:51]:

So so as a recruiter, we use something called programmatic advertising. And so this is a form of AI that we use to come at job seekers wherever they may be kinda living on the Internet. So and and and so yeah. I mean, like I said before, it is AI. So The AI kinda comes into the budget, so I'm not gonna get into that and and kind of where the most the most responses are. But as a job seeker, I would really, really encourage you. If you're, you know, if you're on a if you're on Amazon or if you're on another website, any website and you see an ad for a company that's saying we're hiring, that is because the recruiters have placed that ad there to try to get you to to click on it. So if you really are hurting for work or even if you're just open to other employment, go ahead and click on those ads. Explore kinda what they have. So it's really not AI per se, but it's kind of it's kind of this this trade secret, you know, that that I want You know, people usually see ads and they don't wanna click on them and and whatever. So I would really encourage you to to click on it because those are there for you. Yeah. You know, we're trying to recruit you. So definitely click out.

Jordan [00:21:05]:

That's that's a great that's a great a great, you know, insight there, Kyle. what what what other pieces of advice maybe for job seekers using AI? So maybe even you have a a great way that, you know because it will probably make your job easier to get you know, more tailored resumes and cover letters. But maybe what are some other pieces of advice you have for job seekers, you you know, using AI to get their foot in the door with with a recruiter?

AI enhances cold email outreach and communication

Kyle [00:21:30]:

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, obviously, the way we use AI with cold emails, you can use the same. I cannot tell you how many times, you know, we've hired candidates or or or, I should say, we we we've hired coworkers at Ozenga just because they just happened to reach out to a recruiter, that still goes a really long way. And You know? If you don't know what to write, you don't know kinda how to open it up or whatever, you know, use use AI. But, again, you know, don't don't just hit enter and then copy and paste what the response is. Make sure read it through. Make sure that it is the desired response. And, you know, I'm as as as big as AI is and as big as AI can be, I think You know? I I still this this this human connection, this human this humanness of of just reaching out and just kind of appealing to human nature. You know? Hey. Hey, Kyle. You know, I'm looking for work. Do you guys have anything open? That goes such a long way. And if you're doing that to a bunch of recruiters, use AI to to kind of write your email in any way or or even text or or even a even a phone call script. if you're not the best, you know, public speaker or talking to new people makes you nervous, a, I can write you a script so you have something to go off of when you're talking to a a recruiter. So Yeah. That's great.

Jordan [00:22:55]:

And I think even to to that point, Kyle, is people just using it to improve. You know? So maybe getting your original, you know, get you as a human out there, get it in, and and, you know, have AI to improve it. So I I don't think we have any other quest well, any other questions that we've we've gotten to, but I do have one more for you, Kyle, that maybe we can end the show on. And and thank you again for all the comments. Renee just saying such great advice for job seekers. Nancy, again, if AI helps recruiters find the right candidates faster and better, It's a win win for everyone. Agree. Leah, thank you for your comment. So thank you to everyone who's who's tuned in. But maybe maybe let's let's end end here, Kyle. So Obviously, both parties, you know, recruiters. There's great use cases for AI. You know, we talked a little bit job seekers, you know, how they can use it. You know, moving forward, how do you see this playing out on both sides? Because I think at Ozinga, I think you guys are actually, you know, ahead of most other you know, companies and and how you're using it. So, you know, maybe if if if you can give kind of both sides of advice on how, you know, we can still use AI to get better results, but to still keep that human element. What's what's that one big takeaway that you have?

Use AI in job searches and resume creation

Kyle [00:24:10]:

Yeah. So so the one big takeaway I I would have would be well, most importantly, I would say don't shy away from from AI. This is something that's that's kind of here to stay I read an article the other day that's oh, hey. That's actually my wife. Thanks, Jen. I read an article the other day, you know, that said that this is as this is as important to kind of the world as kind of the Internet was. So this is as big of a for lack of a better term, kind of production that is coming out. So I would say don't shy away from from using it. If you're if you're afraid to use it, I would say, you know, learn. Take classes. LinkedIn learning is great for that. There's so many webinars. Jordan is such a great resource when it comes to this. And, you know, I would say probably as it goes down the line, you know, companies are probably still gonna use it for, you know, screening resumes. candidates are still gonna be using it to create resumes. And so as as a recruiter, I kinda still stand by my my words of it is great that you can, you know, have a you know, an AI generative AI to create your resume. But still, you know, I I I'm looking for that that person with with great character that really likes to that that really loves people, that really loves their work, and and that, you know, that is just something that AI cannot get rid of. No matter how hard people try, AI cannot feel. So, you know, we're still after that person that you know, is is just, you know, this person of of kind of utmost character. And I know that there are so many people out there. And, again, you know, in terms of the layoffs and and and, you know, people looking for jobs, I would say, you know, in addition to stay the course that You know, use use AI to your benefit like I said. Write a resume if if if you want to. I mean, even you see as a recruiter, some of these people that use Indeed to make their resumes, that's, you know, that's a form of AI. You put in your information in spits out a resume, and then, you know, then it's done. And so,

Jordan [00:26:32]:

yeah, that that's really that's really all I got, Jordan. It's no. That that was so much I think you just hit on so many different valuable aspects, you know, all across the board from people in HR recruiting, talent acquisition, to to job seekers, and and people even trying to network. I think you had so many great, you know, tangible takeaways for people on how to use AI. So Kyle, thank you so much for for joining the Everyday AI Show. You just were a wealth wealth of resources for people out there. Thank you. Thanks, Jordan. I appreciate it. Alright. So if you weren't able to type notes fast enough and weren't recording us in AI and having us summarized Don't worry. We are going to recap and share some of the highlights of the conversation today and more about Ozinga as well. So make sure you go to your everyday AI com. Sign up for our daily newsletter. Again, we do this Monday through Friday, podcast, live stream. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next time on Everyday AI. Thank you.

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