Ep 213: AI Meets Doctors – Turning Healthcare from a Service to a Product

Episode Categories:

The Power and Necessity of AI in Healthcare

In an era where technology has revolutionized most industries, healthcare seems lagging, still wrestling with conventional methods. Disappointingly, the progress in digitized healthcare has been slow compared to its siblings in transportation and technology sectors. The current healthcare status quo is criticized as flawed, primarily due to historical decisions that favored employer-based healthcare contributing to inherent systemic issues. However, despite the disappointing progress, there lies an immense opportunity for technology to disrupt healthcare, leading to profound and beneficial change.

The need for efficient healthcare is universal and unprecedented. With the availability of technology, transforming healthcare from a sluggish, reactive service into an agile, proactive product is now within reach. Interestingly, the potential of data-driven predictive care gives us a glimpse at what the future of proactive healthcare might look like.

The Hub and Spoke Model for Healthcare

Consider the hub and spoke model that has been dominant in various industries' evolution. The same model applies to health, necessitating infrastructure in every nook and cranny for early detection and prevention of health risks. This proactive approach to healthcare necessitates readily available and easily accessible healthcare solutions that can predict, diagnose, and prevent health risk effectively and in real-time.

Healthcare should no longer be a restrictive service, limited to in-person interactions in brick-and-mortar locations but a ubiquitous product accessible to all. It signifies a shift from the conventional one-at-a-time service model to an efficient and effective solution for all.

AI Enters the Fray

Artificial Intelligence (AI) has the potential to effect this transformation. By arming doctors with better diagnostic tools, AI can exponentially increase their impact. Despite potential trade-offs, such as privacy issues and a larger shift towards proactive healthcare, the benefits to the individual and overall public health are significant.

Product success stories like the Apple Watch and Fitbit have demonstrated consumer preference for proactive and preventive healthcare solutions. The potential disruption by AI and technology in healthcare is promising if we emulate these successes and focus on delivering tangible healthcare products and not merely services.

Moving Forward with Technology-Driven Healthcare

Continuous innovation and iterative approaches are key to bringing about this evolution from service to product. Companies like Forward exemplify this approach, rapidly iterating and innovating to bring about change. Interestingly, this eco-system mimics the rise of mobile computing and could potentially see a similar path of exponential innovation in healthcare.

Beyond Existing Disparities

While debates surrounding disparities in healthcare due to demographic and socio-economic factors continue, the overarching goal should focus on improving healthcare for everyone first. The path then lays clear to address and mitigate disparities.

Embrace Change and the Future

The future of healthcare could see services extending within the comfort of homes, turning the dream of efficient, consumer-focused healthcare into a reality. The buzz around AI and technology in healthcare isn't simply hype, but the inception of a revolution that will rewrite how healthcare is delivered, consumed, and perceived.

Today may see the dawn of the medical evolution where doctors and AI synchronize, innovating and delivering quality healthcare. Tomorrow, however, could unveil an era where healthcare isn't merely an in-person service but a global, digitally accessible product catering to every individual's needs. So, are we ready to walk this path of revolutionary change hand-in-hand with AI and technology?

Topics Covered in This Episode

1. Evaluation of the US Healthcare System
2. Potential of AI in Healthcare
3. Insights into the Forward Platform
4. Future of Forward
5. Speculation on the future of AI and Healthcare


Podcast Transcript

Jordan Wilson [00:00:16]:
What does the future of health care look like with the ever growing world of artificial intelligence? Sometimes we talk like, oh, you know, are are we gonna have robot doctors or robot nurses? Well, today we're gonna talk about maybe well, will there be doctors? Will it change? Will we just walk into a a personless, place where we can just go in and know everything about our health? So we're gonna talk about that some more and, you you know, what it means if if we turn health care from a service to a product. I'm extremely excited for today's episode. Probably a company that many of you know and many of you probably use. So, extremely excited for that. But before we get started, as a reminder, if you're joining us from the podcast, thank you. Check your show notes, and, we always have more information on today's episode. We always recap every single interview in our newsletter, so make sure you sign up for that. And our website is like a free generative AI university.

Jordan Wilson [00:01:19]:
We have interviews with experts more than 210, I think, now, as well as you can go back and read every single newsletter we've ever written. So if you wanna know more about AI and health care as an example, check out the show notes. We have even more, experts that we've talked to aside from today. Alright. Before we get into that, let's first go over the AI news as we do. So, first, Google has paused its Gemini AI image generation features due to some historical inaccuracies. So Google just announced the pause of its Gemini AI image generation features due to inaccuracies in the historic in historical pictures where it is depicting figures such as the US founding fathers as people of color. So users on social media raised concerns about the AI's tool's ability to generate images accurately, leading Google to acknowledge the issue and promise improvements.

Jordan Wilson [00:02:12]:
So the Gemini image generator tool is called imagine, and it was launched in February through Gemini, formerly called Bard. And it has faced some challenges amid Google's, growing competition with OpenAI. Also, in other small Google news, workspace accounts finally have access to Google Gemini's, new one, 1 point o Ultra model. That was only kind of for, enterprise accounts or personal Gmails. So, if if your company does use, Google Workspace, check. You may have access just as of this morning. Alright. Next, NVIDIA reported its impressive quarter four earnings, and its stock is rising accordingly.

Jordan Wilson [00:02:53]:
So NVIDIA announced revenue for the fiscal Q4, and it said it reached $22,000,000,000, making a remarkable 260% year on year increase. So the company's net income surged by an impressive 769%, showcasing its significant growth in the AI sector. So NVIDIA forecast that its revenue in the current quarter will hit $24,000,000,000,000 billion, surpassing estimates and indicating continued strong growth. And following this positive outlook, several analysts upgraded NVIDIA's stock with JPMorgan as an example, raising its price target to 850 and Bank of America Global Research raising it to 925. And, hey, as a reminder, when I was screaming up about NVIDIA a year ago, I think it was somewhere in the 3 hundreds. And I said it's the most important company in the world that no one's talking about. Well, now everyone's talking about it. Alright.

Jordan Wilson [00:03:45]:
Next piece of AI news. AI researchers are warning of increased dangers of deep fakes. So an open letter signed by AI researchers highlight the dangers of deep fakes and urges the governments to intervene along the deep fake, what they're calling, the supply chain, supply chain. So more than 800 notable AI researchers signed the letter, and the letter calls for criminalizing deep fake child pornography, penalizing the creation and distribution of harmful deepfakes and, causing, forcing software developers to safeguard against such content. So deepfake production surged 550% from 2019 to 2023 with, deepfake pornography constituting 98% of online deepfake videos predominantly targeting women. Alright. Last but not least, small one. Chat g p t is no longer going berserk in case you were wondering.

Jordan Wilson [00:04:34]:
Users were reporting for the last couple of days some strange multilingual gibberish responses, but OpenAI's page is back up and running and says that everything, all systems are go. So, know, if you ask, Chatt GPT for a blog outline today on the history of machine learning as an example, you should get exactly that and not something like all work and no play makes Josh a dull boy. Right? So check it out. It should be better by now. Alright. So let's get into it. I'm very excited today to talk about the intersection of AI and health care. A lot of news today.

Jordan Wilson [00:05:04]:
So, let's get right into it. I'm very excited to welcome today's guest, Adrian Awund, the founder and CEO of Forward. Adrian, thank you for joining the show.

Adrian Aoun [00:05:16]:
Not at all. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here, man.

Jordan Wilson [00:05:19]:
Alright. Hey. So if people don't know Forward, if you've been living under a cave, just just Azir, real quick, tell us, about what Forward is. You, founded the company. So, yeah, give everyone a high level overview of what Forward does in the health care space.

Adrian Aoun [00:05:33]:
Well, like everyone, I started with the you know, I'm not thinking about health care. I'm not going through my life thinking about going to the doctor. That's not the most interesting thing. But then one day, my, my older brother had a heart attack, and I just watched every single thing he went through. And my background's in AI. Ran a bunch of AI efforts at Google. And so just picture my experience. Right? Like, on a Monday, I'm, like, at Google trying to solve AI.

Adrian Aoun [00:05:54]:
On a Tuesday, I'm in my brother's exam room, and I swear to god, there's, like, a doctor standing over him with Post it notes. So I'm sitting here, and I'm like, guys, where's all the AI? Like, how did we end up in this world where this is the epitome of health care? And, honestly, you quickly realize health care is just kind of a pile of crap. What's worse is it's not even an evenly distributed pile of crap. There's about 8,000,000,000 people on the planet. Less than 2,000,000,000 of them have access to anything you and I would call like a real form of care. So I'm sitting here as an engineer, and I'm like, this makes no sense. We can get smartphones to the whole damn planet. We can't get basic health care there.

Adrian Aoun [00:06:26]:
And so I asked myself one simple question. And I said, well, maybe we're doing health care all wrong. See, when you peel back layers of onion, one of the things you quickly realize is health care is basically doctors and nurses. Now I love doctors and nurses, but let's be real. You're never gonna scale them to the whole planet. You're you're you're never you know, they're too expensive. There's not enough of them. So what I said is, well, maybe instead of building health care as a service, we should rebuild it as a product.

Adrian Aoun [00:06:51]:
In other words, what would happen if you took every single thing that doctors and nurses are doing and just try to migrate it over to hardware and software? Because if you can, oh my god, you can scale health care up to the whole planet, apply all the AI you want. Ideally, we're all living a hell of a lot longer than we do. So that's what we started with. And what we've done over the last few years is we've created a health care system live in about 25 cities all across the country. We started with, what we almost think of as our model s, a very high-tech clinic where you can come in, and you can do everything from the body scanning to genetic sequencing to, to drawing your blood and getting all your biomarkers to skin scanning, you name it. We get all that data, and we use a bunch of algorithms to basically help us figure out what is the best treatment path forward. But now what we're doing, this is we we recently launched our our what we think of as our model 3. This is called the forward care pod.

Adrian Aoun [00:07:47]:
This is an entirely AI driven, like, LLM based doctor's office. It's a pod that you woke that you walk into. And, again, we do everything from drawing your blood to sequencing your DNA to body scans to skin scans to you name it. We have all this technology in there to learn as much as we can about you. Say these are the things that are gonna cause you problems in the future. Let's start preventing them now.

Jordan Wilson [00:08:11]:
So much to unpack there. My gosh. I I I I have, like, 50 follow-up questions. So so, Adrian, like, I love what you talked about, you know, because your your background in, you know, if if you're listening, he's being very modest. Right? So, Adrian is very well known, in this space. You were you were essentially Larry Page's right hand man at Google when it came AI. Correct?

Adrian Aoun [00:08:34]:
Yeah. In fact, I ran special projects for Google. So I was Larry's right hand man for a few years, and this was kind of the creation of Alphabet, a bunch of the Alphabet companies. So what we looked at is how can we take AI? Like, I started in the in the building the AI division at Google, but then we looked we spent a few years saying, how can we take AI and apply it to any industry? From self driving cars to rockets in space to literally building cities from scratch. And it turns out that AI is kind of kind of the the knife that can be applied to almost any problem. Right?

Jordan Wilson [00:09:05]:
And so so I'm curious. So when you're having, you know, I guess, unfortunately, some great innovations come at times when things are hard. Right? So, you're you're seeing your brother here in the hospital, and you're seeing, you know, archaic, you know, systems of health care, which I think is still, oftentimes true today. What what what year was this that that that you came to this this revelation of, like, we need, some artificial intelligence in health care?

Adrian Aoun [00:09:34]:
Yeah. It's about 10 years ago, but you know what? I always kind of had that that insight a little just sitting in the back of my mind. I mean, think about it. Right? Let's pretend the person you love most in the world. Right? Whatever. Your your sister, wife, you know, girlfriend, brother, whatever it happens to be. They, they walk up to you and they're like, you know, I didn't go to the doctor this year. I didn't get my checkup.

Adrian Aoun [00:09:54]:
Do you look and go, oh my god. Poor Julie. Oh my god. She's gonna die. No. You kinda just say, hey. You really should go occasionally. Right? So what have you naturally iterated to? You naturally understand that, like, going to the doctor is not actually a life or death thing.

Adrian Aoun [00:10:09]:
It's not gonna, like, all of a sudden make you drop dead or or it's also on the other side not gonna make you live 25 years longer. And so what what we've done is we've kinda created a health care system that if we're gonna be totally honest with ourselves, basically does fuck all. Right? It really just doesn't do that much. And for me, this is kinda disappointing. When I look back in history, as far back as, like, human knowledge goes, back to the bronze era, Right? 55 100 years ago. And instead of thinking about health care, let's think about transportation. I mean, 55 100 years ago, transportation was that I walked on my own damn 2 feet. I could walk 5 miles a day.

Adrian Aoun [00:10:42]:
1000 years later, we, you know, we invented sandals. Now I got to 10 miles. A 1000 years later, we tamed horses. Now I got to 50, a 100 miles. But look at what we did in the last 200 years. We invented boats. We invented cars. We invented trains, planes.

Adrian Aoun [00:10:55]:
Then we have NASA saying, I'm going all the way to the moon a 125,000 miles away. And then we have Elon saying, no. Screw this. Hold my beer. I'm going to Mars a 125,000,000 miles away. So we went from 5 miles to a 125,000,000 miles away. But now instead, let's look at life expectancy. Right? Life expectancy 55 100 years ago was what? Well, it turns out, like I'll give you the bad news.

Adrian Aoun [00:11:17]:
If you're born 55 100 years ago, you had a 15 to 20% probability of death right at, right in infancy. Okay. That's not good. But that also means you had a 75 to 80% probability of survival. And if you did live, turns out the average age was about 42. What's the average age today? Well, it turns out it's about 72. So what do you mean? And one of these went 25,000,000 x. The other one couldn't even double in 55 100 years.

Adrian Aoun [00:11:39]:
Like, what the hell? Where's my rockets? Where's my where's my 25,000,000 x? And so what I started by asking myself is, like, what would it take for us to actually change life on this planet not by a year or 2, but by an order of magnitude. And what you realize is the entire system that we have today wasn't built for that. We're not collecting the data. We're not analyzing the data anywhere near to the degrees of amount of data or amount of iterations that we should be, and this is the opportunity that technology finally has to change health care once and for all.

Jordan Wilson [00:12:52]:
So, Adrian, I don't wanna ask a leading question, but, how broken is the US health care system? Right? Like, we have listeners from all over the world, but the majority of people are here in the US. How broken is the US health care system, and is AI going to be one of, the best fixes for it in in at least in the short term future?

Adrian Aoun [00:13:34]:
It's broken because of exactly what all of us know, which is, like, the health care system doesn't actually work for us. Right? So it's like we did this really kind of this what sounded brilliant at the time sort of thing, you know, which is after World War 2 I gotta go I gotta go all the way back to give the history. After World War 2, you know, it turns out a lot of people died in the war. We our our kind of workforces in the United States were fairly depleted. We just didn't have workers. So what did every company do? Well, they just started saying, let's let's go ahead and, like, increase salaries, increase salaries, increase salaries, and the government saw this. It was like, holy shit. This is really bad.

Adrian Aoun [00:14:07]:
Salaries are going wild. So we put a salary cap in the entire country. Right? Then, obviously, every single, you know, like, founder and CEO of the company is sitting there going, well, I still gotta give you something to get you to come here. So you know what they did? They started giving benefits. They were like, we'll give you some health care. 10 years, 20 years later, government's going, wait a minute. This seems kinda nice. We got a bunch of citizens with health care benefits.

Adrian Aoun [00:14:29]:
Maybe we should turn this into a law. And now all of a sudden is literally required by law to, for companies to give health care. This all sounds great. Every single one of these actions, very well intentioned. But what does this mean today? Well, it turns out it means employers are paying for your health care. But there's one key problem. The average tenure of an employee with their employer, about 2, maybe 3 years in the United States.

Jordan Wilson [00:14:51]:
I think a great comment here from doctor Harvey Castro. So, you know, he's saying doctor plus AI is maybe greater than just a doctor or just AI. I'd love to hear your take on this because it it seems like a lot of where forward is moving is, you know but it's it's like what you said at the top of the show. It's like, hey. You love doctors. You love nurses. But, I mean, is the future do we still need the same number? Do we still need them, like, at all? You you know, even going to a CarePod system, presumably, there's there's no human in there. So, I mean, what's your thought on just the human element in health care moving forward?

Adrian Aoun [00:15:30]:
So I strongly, strongly agree with Harvey that at the end of the day, you wanna throw everything that you can and the kitchen sink at this problem. Right? And so anybody who's a purist, no, you should just have doctors, you're crazy. Anybody who's, you should just have AI, you're crazy. What you really want is the combination thereof. But the trick is that the role of the doctor is going to change. See, today, doctors are practicing medicine. Right? They see a person 1 at a time. Let me just give you give you an analogy.

Adrian Aoun [00:15:56]:
When I was at Google, you know, I ran a chunk of the search engine. Right? And so I would sit down, and if I literally wrote some code, I could send it out to 4,000,000,000 people later that day. When a doctor sits down, they affect 1 person in front of them. Like, why? Why can I affect 4,000,000,000, they can affect one? Is it because I'm smarter than the doctor? No. Because I went to more school? No. Quite the opposite. Oh, it must be because I'm more altruistic. No.

Adrian Aoun [00:16:18]:
Again, the opposite. So you know what it is? It's that when I sit down to work, my tools are amazing. I sit down at this thing called a laptop, which is, like, the sum culmination of all human advancement in this 2 pound device right in front of me. When doctors sit down to work, we gave them this piece of shit called Epic that was built, you know, 40 years ago and is mostly a billing tool. Right? It's like, so what we need to do is we need to give doctors the tools to fix the problems once and for all, not see the flu 2,000,000,000 damn times. Like, how absurd is it that if you get the flu, you literally go to the doctor? Like, we really haven't productized even that? Like, this is just insane, and so what we're trying to do is we want more doctors having more impact. I think the world will only be better if we have more doctors, but we give them very good tools.

Jordan Wilson [00:17:03]:
And and, hey, just as a reminder for those of you joining us live, great time to get your question in now while we have, Adrian on the Everyday AI Show. It's not every day you can you can ask questions, from the CEO of of a company that's really shaping, the future of health care. You know, 1 1 question I have, Adrian, that I'm sure is on a lot of people's mind is is AI means a lot more data. Right? It it technically means maybe a little less privacy. At least that's what I think. Right? So, if if if I go into a forward location, I'm I'm guessing it's it's well, I kind of know. It's it's cameras. It's scanners.

Jordan Wilson [00:17:38]:
It's it's everything. It's so much data, which, hey, I personally love. Hey, health care. Take all my data. Take all my pictures. Right? But not everyone feels the same way. Maybe they feel like, oh, if if I go into an old school, you know, doctor's office with Post it notes, you know, my data or, you know, you know, I'm I'm more secure. What's what's your take on on that? Like, is there, should the average consumer be be worried about, you know, their their health data and their privacy when we talk about infusing AI everywhere?

Adrian Aoun [00:18:08]:
Everything in life is about trade offs. I'm just picturing, like, whatever, a 150 years ago, somebody came around. You're, like, living on the farm. Somebody comes around, and they're like, you know what? I'm gonna paint a number on your house. You're like, what is that number? And it's like, it's a street address. And you're like, what's a street address? It's so people can find you, and you're like, wait. I don't like this. That's invading my privacy.

Adrian Aoun [00:18:28]:
And then, you know, 20 years later, somebody comes around and they're like, here's a phone number, and I'm gonna create this thing called the phone book where everybody can find you and everyone's like, wait. I don't like this. I don't like this. Don't want people to be able to call me. Right? And, yeah, we're giving up privacy every single day, but what are we getting for it? Right? Well, it turns out now people can come visit your house. Now people can call you. Right? And in this, what we're talking about is the ultimate freedom. Right? It's like, give up some privacy.

Adrian Aoun [00:18:52]:
If you don't want to, you don't have to. Nobody's nobody's forcing you into this. But let's talk about what you do get if you're willing to give up a little of that privacy. And the reality is you might get to live twice as long on this planet. Now what I see is my friends on Facebook giving up their privacy so that they can, like, tag a check-in at, you know, at McDonald's. Like, so at the end of the day, I think, like, giving up your privacy for living twice as long might actually be a very good thing. But now let me give you one other thing to think about. We're all very, very, very nervous about our health care data, particularly in this country more than others.

Adrian Aoun [00:19:24]:
But let me tell you. Is there are there hackers out there that give a shit about your rash? No. They do not care about your cholesterol. They don't care about your rash. Hackers care about your money. Okay? They're breaking into your bank accounts. Nobody's sitting around going, you know, if only I knew that Jordan I don't know. His his creatinine level was too high.

Adrian Aoun [00:19:42]:
Like, no one cares. You're not that interesting. I promise. Right? So I I

Jordan Wilson [00:19:46]:
do have a I do have a rash on on on my arm that you were just talking about. So maybe maybe hey. Maybe you've already got all the data.

Adrian Aoun [00:19:54]:
Yeah. I would I I think we're focused on the wrong things. We need to focus on how we can live longer, healthier, happy lives, not focused on how we can, like, I don't know, care about privacy for something that frankly isn't the most important thing.

Jordan Wilson [00:20:07]:
Is health care in general, maybe is it ingrained in us that it's just way too reactive. Right? Like, Cecilia here with a great comment saying that she loves the concept of thinking forward for health care. The saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is is just our even as as as the consumers, right, consumers, quote, unquote, as patients, as human beings, do we just have the wrong viewpoint of health care is that everything is reactive and we never really do anything proactively for our health? Is that a big problem?

Adrian Aoun [00:20:39]:
Yeah. You know what's really funny? So in the world of health care, they keep saying, yeah. But you know what? Consumers don't want that. In fact, every health care system has an entire team called the compliance team, and I always love this. What's the compliance team? It's the, like, we told you to do something, and you didn't do it. Like, we told you to take your meds and you didn't take your meds. Can you imagine if, like, Instagram had a compliance team? We launched a new app, and no one's using it. We should go scold them.

Adrian Aoun [00:21:03]:
It's like, no. You built a shitty app. Right? Well, it turns out, like, we as consumers, we love prevention. You don't believe me? Look at how people are wearing their Apple Watches, Fitbits, night you know, buy Nike, Lululemon. For crying out loud, every person I know comes up to me and they're like, Adrian, you gotta use, like, Method soap because you know what? Like, that's gonna prevent cancer. Drink your organic smoothie. It's like, really? Because we believe smoothies are gonna prevent cancer. This is what we've iterated to.

Adrian Aoun [00:21:28]:
But, like, what you realize is we love prevention. But on the other hand, the product that we've been given from the health care system is basically a pile of crap, and nobody believes it. And so I think what we need to do is we need to build better products, not sit here and scold people for not caring about the crap that we're giving them in health care today.

Jordan Wilson [00:21:49]:
Hey. In in full disclosure, I'm I'm with Monica here. Just take all of my data. I agree. I want better ads online. I hey. Health care, everyone, take all my data. So a a good a good point here, that I saw in the comments, asking how is forward changing the collection of data when it comes to health care? What's I mean, what's your viewpoint on that? Like, do you need every single data point? Like, are we not right now, are we not taking nearly enough data for more preventative, you know, health care? What's your take on that, Adrian?

Adrian Aoun [00:22:22]:
So before we think about health care, let's just look at what's happened in the in the last, like, decade and a half when it comes to the mobile computing revolution. Right? Like, 15 years ago, none of us had phones in our pockets. That wasn't even a concept. And then Apple comes out with this little thing called the iPhone, and holy shit, overnight the world of mobile computing takes off. Literally, it was just like wild exponential curve. Now ask yourself why. What happened? Well, what happened was a little 22 year old at Stanford named Kevin Systrom just has this idea of, like, this thing called Instagram. 12 hours later, it's literally live to the entire world.

Adrian Aoun [00:22:54]:
But there's something really important here, which was there was Instagram, but there were also about a 100 other photo sharing apps. So you can almost think of the mobile computing revolution as what it allowed is it allowed us to try hundreds and hundreds of ideas and see what won overnight. So what Forward is doing is we are building a platform that lets us iterate and innovate faster than anybody. You have an idea. You can literally write some code and ship it out to all of our members literally 2 hours later. Right? And if we if we get this world going, if we open this up so that everybody, all these people listening today, all of them have ideas. Well, I wonder if we could do mental health a little better this way. I wonder if I could lose weight a little better this way.

Adrian Aoun [00:23:33]:
I wonder if I can prevent cancer a little better this way. You have some people on behavioral, some people on genetics, everybody. If we can get them all working on 1 platform, then we could create a rate of innovation that starts to go exponential. This is what you saw in transportation. Remember what I told you? It was flat for almost 5000 years. Just in 200 years, it went wild. Right? This is what we've seen in mobile computing. Now you have to ask yourself the same question.

Adrian Aoun [00:23:58]:
Can we create this in the world of health care? Basically, ask yourself this. What would it look like to have the world's largest clinical trials platform? What would it look like for all of us to be contributing to the learning of health care every single day with every action that we do? If we can get there, all of a sudden, you're gonna see us start to bend the curve of life.

Jordan Wilson [00:24:18]:
Hey. I'm I'm excited for us to get there, if I'm being honest. The, something I hate about the health care system is is having to wait. You know? It's like sometimes seeing, the the cardiologist is like getting, you know, Taylor Swift tickets. It's like you feel so lucky, but it's, you know, 6 months away. Adrian, maybe before we land this plane, I'm hoping we can do a little little rapid fire here. Have a couple of questions, trying to get to them. So, from another one from Cecilia asking, how is Ford working to ensure that we eliminate the health care disparities that exist for women and people of color by asking these forward thinking questions when the base of knowledge does not include information based on their characteristics?

Adrian Aoun [00:24:57]:
So Cecilia is asking a really, really important question, and it's one that I get often. Honestly, I spend a lot of time thinking about. But before you even think about the disparities because you're saying, well, you know, women have worse health care than men and, you know, people of color have worse health care than people, people who are maybe Caucasian. I totally agree. But I wanna go even a step further and be like, we all have crap. We literally all have junk. So rather than focus on the disparities, let's start by just saying, can we make it good? If we can make it good, if we can get to a world where we're all living to 500 or a 1000 years old, we don't have we're not all walking around with bad backs and cancer waiting to, like, take us out. If we can get to that world, then let's start focusing on these disparities.

Adrian Aoun [00:25:38]:
Because I think the things that unite us and the things that are common between us are far greater than the things that are different between us. And if we can get to a world where I'm living to a 500, I promise you you're gonna be living to 500. Or, you know what? If it's 498, then we should go work on that problem then. But right now, I am much, much, much earlier than even this. I'm at a point of I think we all have crap.

Jordan Wilson [00:26:01]:
Raise raise it for everyone. Alright. We're going fastball to softball here. So Nisha asking, where and how do you access these forward clinics?

Adrian Aoun [00:26:09]:
So we're live in most major cities in the United States with our clinics. And so you can look it up. Goforward.com. You can find them. And we're just starting to roll out our CarePods right now. That's our kind of our new product. They're, they're live in the West Coast. They're kinda coming across all all across the country, so stay tuned.

Adrian Aoun [00:26:26]:
You can sign up at our website, and we'll kinda keep you posted.

Jordan Wilson [00:26:30]:
Alright. Another good one here from Juan. Do you see Ford accepting insurance in the future, or does it already?

Adrian Aoun [00:26:36]:
Dear god, please no. That really anything like, you can ask me to do many, many, many things, Juan. Please don't make me take insurance. Here's the deal. I want Ford to be cheap. I want Ford to be accessible. I want Ford to roughly be $0. But the way we're gonna do that is the same way you've seen every single piece of technology do this.

Adrian Aoun [00:26:52]:
Right? The first iPhone was $800. Now in the middle of India, we can buy a smartphone for $20. What did we do? Did we accept insurance? No. What we did is we used this thing called Moore's law. It means the technology decreases in cost logarithmically, so give us time. We started at 1.49 a month. Now we're down to $99 a month. That's just in a few years.

Adrian Aoun [00:27:09]:
Give me a few more years. We'll be at 49, then 29, then 9. We'll get there, but let's not do it with the broken insurance system at our backs.

Jordan Wilson [00:27:17]:
Man. Hey. Speaking of shrinking things, so you go from, you know, locations to CarePod to Tara's asking, can I just get this in my home? Is that something that's in the future?

Adrian Aoun [00:27:28]:
Absolutely and not at all. So let me kind of explain. Most technology develops as a hub and spoke sort of model. Right? We had servers. Servers allowed us to build desktops. Desktops allowed us to build laptops and phones and watches and wearables. But you'll notice that every time we go to something smaller, we're not ditching the thing before. What is your laptop without a server? Well, it turns out it's fairly useless, but this happens in all technology.

Adrian Aoun [00:27:51]:
We have freeways that allow main thoroughfares that allow side streets, alleys, driveways, and garages. Right? What you're gonna find is that every single time we can make something smaller to fit into your home, there's gonna be that next piece of technology that's not yet cheap enough or small enough to put into your home. So at Ford, we want to have the health care infrastructure across the whole chain. We wanna have things in your neighborhood. We wanna have things in your home. We we wanna have things on your body or even one day in your body. We think that health care needs to be everywhere for it to be truly, truly proactive.

Jordan Wilson [00:28:25]:
Hot dang, y'all. Like, I I don't know if anyone else just wants to talk to Adrian for, like, 5 more hours or if it's just me. This is so insightful, so entertaining, but we can't keep you forever. So, Adrian, as we wrap here, we've talked about literally so much. We've talked about what's wrong with health care. We've talked about the downsides maybe or potential downsides of using too much AI and data collection. We've talked about disparities in in health care, you know, here in the US and everywhere else. But, as we wrap up, what is maybe the one takeaway message that you want people that you want to stick with people if you've peaked their attention on how we maybe should be turning health care from a service to a product.

Adrian Aoun [00:29:05]:
So the one thing that that I think all of us can do is just stop accepting crap. It's almost like we've got Stockholm syndrome. Like, health care today is 20% of GDP. Well, when you hear that, that's like an amorphous concept. So let me just make it really, really simple. It's 20% of your fucking paycheck. Right? Somebody take literally takes 1 out of every $5 out of your pocket and gives it to the health care system. And what do you get for it? Well, most studies there's this really famous Oregon study where the state of Oregon said, you know what? We don't have enough money to give everybody health care.

Adrian Aoun [00:29:36]:
We're only gonna randomly give it to half our people. And then they looked at the outcomes 20 years later, and they said, okay. Who live longer? Well, it turns out there was no difference. Literally no difference. So what you're telling me is you're taking 20% of my fucking paycheck, and you're giving me nothing for it. That's the health care system that we have today. Capturing it. Start demanding something that is a 100 times better or a 1000 times better.

Adrian Aoun [00:30:00]:
If we start demanding that, we might actually pave the way for people to go build it.

Jordan Wilson [00:30:05]:
I love this. Moving health care forward, aptly named company. This conversation was amazing. Adrian, thank you so much for joining the Everyday AI Show. We really appreciate your time.

Adrian Aoun [00:30:20]:
Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Jordan Wilson [00:30:23]:
And, hey, as a reminder, if this was helpful, please consider sharing this with your network. Tell them if you agree with what Adrian's saying. If health care you think is broken, if you think AI needs a bigger place, please share this. And, also, please go to our website at your everydayai.com and join us tomorrow as we talk about the ethical consideration of AI and strategic innovation. Thank you all for joining us, and we'll see you back tomorrow and everyday for more everyday AI. Thanks, y'all.

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